MovieChat Forums > 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968) Discussion > Why do the ships fly so slowly?

Why do the ships fly so slowly?


Why do the ships fly so slowly? Is this a plot hole? Or is there a reason for them to be moving so glacially?

I would have thought that if they'd been planning on going to Jupiter, they'd have to travel a bit faster relative to the stationary camera to get there within a reasonable time frame.

EDIT: Through some great points raised by others, I have reached the following assumptions:
- It cannot a plot hole because the speed of the spaceship does not relate to the plot
- The most likely explanation for the low speed of the spaceship relative to the camera is that the camera is also moving, just slightly slower than the ship. So essentially, the ship is overtaking the camera.
Let me know if you have any other interpretations!

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I assume that they're traveling VERY fast, but it's hard to visualize their speed as there's nothing close enough to the ships to provide a visual reference.

I don't know if Kubrick wanted the ships to look slow because he wanted the viewer to feel that the astronaut characters were trapped in a claustrophobic environment, or if he just couldn't figure out a good way to show the real speed of the ships. Probably the former.

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But there is something close enough to provide a visual reference. The edges of the frame of the camera. Which shows that the trip is travelling very slowly in comparison to the presumably stationary camera.

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"Why do the ships fly so slowly?"

What makes you think they're flying slowly?

"I assume that they're traveling VERY fast, but it's hard to visualize their speed as there's nothing close enough to the ships to provide a visual reference."

Exactly.

"But there is something close enough to provide a visual reference. The edges of the frame of the camera. Which shows that the trip is travelling very slowly in comparison to the presumably stationary camera."

The camera is not a reference. The stars or Jupiter would be a reference but are so far away that it gives the impression of slow movement and this was intentional on the part of Kubrick. This is not Star wars :)

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The camera is a reference. It represents what you would see if you were in that spot, stationary. And if you were in that spot, stationary, Discovery would be travelling significantly faster relative to your stationary position.

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For one thing, there is no camera in the movie.

As far as your reference point, you have no idea how far you are from the spacecraft and you can't say it's stationary either. You just have nothing to go by.

It's all perspective.

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"There is no camera in the movie"

You don't see a camera, but the movie was filmed with a camera. And, you do see what the camera sees. So the camera is a proxy for an independent observer.

"You have no idea how far you are from the spacecraft"

Actually you do. If you know how big the spacecraft is, and how much of your field of vision it takes up, you are able to make a reasonable estimate as to how far away the ship is. Just like if you saw a car in a desert with no landmarks anywhere, and there was a sand storm so you couldn't see the horizon, you would still be able to estimate it's distance from you.

"you can't say it's stationary either"

Now we're getting somewhere to actually addressing my question. I wonder if a moving observer is the only way to explain the slow speed of the spacecraft relative to the observer

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If you are traveling within the Solar System, the stars are not going to "move" regardless of how fast you are moving. You are simply not traveling far enough for any discernible change in the star field.

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I know. I have not said that stars should be moving relative to the camera. In fact I haven't even used the word star.

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Then there is nothing to move against. If the "camera" is focused on the field of stars, the ship would show no movement against that field. Against a closer object, asteroid, comet, planet, you would see them move.

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The ship is moving relative to the camera.

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WHATS IT LIKE HAVING 12 PEOPLE EXPLAIN SOMETHING TO YOU AND STILL HOLD ON TO YOUR OWN IGNORANT INCORRECT ANALYSIS?

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What's it like getting angry with people on the internet?

I understand that seeing the ship move forwards relative to the camera doesn't necessarily mean that the ship is indeed moving forwards. What I was hoping to discuss is what the framing was meant to represent in terms of movement of the ship.

No one has rebutted the fact that the ship is moving relative to the camera.

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NOT ANGRY.THERES NO CAMERA.YOU NEED AN ITEM IN SHOT.

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I have already rebutted this point above, and my rebuttal received no further rebuttal:

"You don't see a camera, but the movie was filmed with a camera. And, you do see what the camera sees. So the camera is a proxy for an independent observer."

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NOPE....CAMERA IS MAKING THE SHOT,NOT IN THE SHOT.CAMERA AND THE SHIP ARE BOTH MOVING,THUS LITTLE MOVEMENT VISIBLE...AN ITEM IN FRAME AND STATIONARY IS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE ACTUAL SPEED OF MOVEMENT...

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This will be my last response to you due to your poor grammar.

"CAMERA IS MAKING THE SHOT,NOT IN THE SHOT" - this does not rebut my point that you see what the camera sees, and that this camera is a proxy for an independent observer.

"CAMERA AND THE SHIP ARE BOTH MOVING" - I agree that this is a possible explanation, that the ship is at low speed relative to a moving camera.

"AN ITEM IN FRAME AND STATIONARY IS THE ONLY WAY TO JUDGE ACTUAL SPEED OF MOVEMENT" - You're right. But if you look at my original post, I made the assumption that the camera was stationary, so you could have simply responded with "What if the camera is moving too", which is something I hadn't considered at that point. Also, even if something else is in frame, you'd have no way of knowing it is stationary. In fact, nothing is truly stationary. Everything orbits something.

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REALLY?WHAT EXACTLY IS WRONG WITH MY GRAMMAR?YOU SEEM TO HAVE AN "
ANSWER" TO YOUR OWN "QUESTION" ALREADY CEMENTED IN YOUR HEAD.JUST UNDERSTAND,SOME PEOPLE HAVE ACTUALLY READ A THING OR TWO ABOUT THE FILM.HAVE A SPLENDIDLY IGNORANT DAY,SIR.

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You Kubrick fans are absolutely pathetic. Getting your panties in a twist over any genuine complaints about the movie. Just accept the fact that the ships were moving slowly because of the technological limitations of the 60's and move on.

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POINT OF FACT..I AM NOT KUBRICK FAN..I FIND HIS MOVIES TO BE LONG,BORING AND PRETENTIOUS.

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Actually, if you were in that spot stationary, what you would see would be a white blur because Discovery is travelling at 100,000 miles per hour, according to the book.

We have to assume that the camera that films the ship is travelling at the same speed, (otherwise the ship wouldn't be in the film at all), and the slow pans and the receding shots are the cameraman's stylistic photographing of it.

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Yeah this seems to be the consensus in this thread and I think I agree. Thank you for your intelligent and non angry response!

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:)

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The real answer is, the technological constraints of the 60's didn't allow Kubrick to show the true speed of the ships. Most of these replies are cop-out answers from Kubrick fangirls who can't accept any flaws in his movies.

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Imagine that you’re in your car, tooling down the freeway at 70mph. Another car is in the next lane doing 75mph. You're both traveling pretty fast, but the other car is only passing you at 5mph.

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Yes I understand the basic concept of relativistic movement. Are you saying that these scenes are supposed to represent a spaceship moving very fast, and the camera also moving very fast, but slightly slower than the spaceship?

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[deleted]

It's not necessarily the only explanation. Another explanation is that the ship is indeed moving slowly. Another explanation is that it is stationary and the camera is panning backwards across the ship. Another explanation is that the metaphorical camera is very distant from the ship but zoomed in which makes speeds appear slower, e.g. viewing the movement of Jupiter in the sky from Earth.

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[deleted]

Yes I think I agree that your hypothesis is the most likely.

Nah I genuinely wasn't sure what you meant. I don't know why you're being so evasive with clarification, but nevertheless, yes think that I have now worked out what you meant.

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Why do you say they are "flying" so slow anyway? "Flying" in space is disorienting since there is nothing closely to reference your speed with. Remember they were in hibernation for months and months as well.

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Yeah you're right, flying was the wrong word to use. Not really relevant the crux of the discussion though.

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The Earth seems to be moving slowly as well, but we are really moving about 19 miles per second, and we do not see any planets moving visibly.

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In what way are you saying this relates to the shots of the spaceship moving relative to the camera in the film? Are you saying the film could represent the camera being very distant from the space ship, but then zoomed in?

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And how is any of this a flaw in the narrative, or, as you put it, a plot hole? What is it with this obsession over plot holes? It’s like, “Gotcha! I spy a plot hole! I win!” It’s a VERY annoying trend.

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You're right, plot hole was the wrong term.

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People saying you can't discuss plot holes is arguably an annoying trend to.

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And they usually aren't plot holes.

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Consider this is visual fictional storytelling and not a documentary, that some artistic choices are meant to evoke feeling, set a mood, or just look pretty, not transmit rational information. To be clear I'm saying the ship is moving slowly because it looks majestic and it's not a plot hole.

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Why do the ships fly so slowly? - They do not.
Is this a plot hole? -- It is not.
Or is there a reason for them to be moving so glacially? --- OK, lets give an example of why this is meaningless.
Ever thought about the International Space Station... Just sorta hanging up there in orbit, apparently motionless? Cuz that's how it looks in footage of the station from anywhere in it's vicinity. But you know that is not what's happening. It's zipping along at 17000 mph or some preposterous mach number if you like those... say about mach 30.
It is always about frame of reference. In interplanetary space you are well away from anything. The stars just maintain their positions, moving only if you rotate or tumble... The sun and any planets are only going to move at a crawl that you cannot perceive - again, unless you rotate or tumble. if you want to visualize a spaceship from a point of view where it seems to zip by, you just establish your viewpoint at a different velocity. You want the ship to go by as fast as a fighter jet; just view it from a point traveling 1000 mph less than it's velocity(or 1000 mph more than if you want it to zip by in the other direction).
Ultimately the point of showing the ships "flying slowly" is that they are in a sense flying slowly... It takes many long boring airline passenger hours to get to the moon, and you can hardly even see it get bigger most of the way. Flying to Jupiter takes months and months... The trip is inevitably tedious. Should the Discovery look like it's zooming?

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[deleted]

The ISS appears to be moving slowly relative to Earth because we are so far from it.

Are you implying that the shot of Discovery travelling forward slowly (relative to the camera) is supposed to represent a very distant observer?

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now you're getting to the meat of it !
that camera is near the ship!

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