MovieChat Forums > Mouchette (1970) Discussion > Those who enjoyed the film may want to c...

Those who enjoyed the film may want to check out this website


www.mouchette.org...Supposely it was done by a 13 year old girl who is obessed with sucide...I haven't watched mouchette yet but found the website very interesting.

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That Bresson quote ("Mouchette offers...") is the pull-quote blurb on my VHS copy of MOUCHETTE, and quite honestly I hate it: it makes the movie sound like a geekshow of "misery and cruelty," and the very specific, very obstreporous, human and saintly character of Mouchette a nihilistic, life-denying symbol. Yes, Bresson was "concerned with how to escape from the prison in which we find ourselves," but not, to my mind, in such abstracted thinking -- simply, the prison is mortal life, and the escape is suicide.

Only a strict Jansenist filmmaker like Bresson could portray suicide as glorious (like the miraculous martyrdom of Jeanne D'Arc in his PROCES, and the quiet Assumption at the end of MOUCHETTE) and not nihilistic or life-denying.

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There is this "famous" myth that Bresson's movies are based on Jansenism which is partly emerging from Paul Schrader's infamous limited undertanding of Bresson's films. For example, his strictly theological reading of Bresson fails to recognise some other strong elements of his movies like eroticism, for example.
Jansenist theology is all about precondition and unchangebility of destiny. Every human being has already preconditioned path. Even the thing that some people go to hell and some to heaven is decided upon birth. Every Bresson character chalenges and changes his/her destiny. Every of his movies is about changing destiny. Suicide is a way of changing one's destiny. Escape from jail is a way of changing destiny. Miraculous decision of Yvon (at the end of L'Argent) to turn himself in, which is totally inconsequent whith everything we see before, is strongest moment of the destiny defeat -(in this case of a horrible life of a murderer) in a Bresson film. In that movie, destiny is symbolised by a fake money bill. That is why his characters always do some unexpected (illogical if you want) things. It is their challenging of destiny. His movies are opposite of Jansenism.

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I think you are confused. Jansenism is not "all about precondition and unchangebility of destiny". What you describe is the doctrine of predestination, which Bresson, being Roman Catholic, would never accept.
Jansenism is based on two precepts:
(1) following God's commandments is impossible without grace;
(2) the working of the grace is irresistible.
Thus, contrary to what you wrote, L'Argent is a perfect illustration of (2), while, of course, "Mouchette" can be viewed as impossibility of sainthood without receiving the grace. I agree that the reduction of Bresson's films to theology is simplistic, but IT IS the jansensistic theology which provides the explanation
"why his characters always do some unexpected (illogical if you want) things".

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You said:"(1) following God's commandments is impossible without grace; "
Isn't this a predestination? Only those who are graced (predestined) for sainthood (for a lack of better word) are the ones to reach the Heaven. If this isn't a predestination, I don't know what is. You seem to know the basic idea, although you don't understand it.

This is what I've found on wikipedia:

"In Jansenist thought, human beings were born sinful, and without divine help a human being could never become good. Ironically, this led the Jansenists to seek to exhibit a high level of piety and moral rectitude, and prepare carefully through prayer and confession before receiving Communion (hence Jansenists favored less frequent reception). The Jansenist idea of predestination, based on Augustine's writing and close to that of Calvinism, was that only a portion of human beings, the "elect," were destined to be saved. Unlike Calvinism, however, Jansenism lacked a doctrine of assurance, making salvation unknowable even to the "saved."

Also, this is from an encyclopedia:

"The theological position known as Jansenism was probably the single most divisive issue within the Roman Catholic church between the Protestant Reformation and the French Revolution. The doctrine took its name from the Flemish theologian and bishop of Ypres, Cornelius Jansen (1585 - 1638), who summarized his ideas on Grace and free will in his posthumously published treatise, the Augustinus (1640). Relying on the strictest possible interpretation of one aspect of Saint Augustine's philosophy, Jansen argued in favor of absolute Predestination, in which humans are perceived as incapable of doing good without God's unsolicited grace and only a chosen few are believed to receive Salvation. In this respect, the doctrine closely resembled Calvinism, although the Jansenists always vigorously proclaimed their attachment to Roman Catholicism."

http://mb-soft.com/believe/txc/jansenis.htm

So if this is true than you are wrong. You have rotally wrong idea of this theology. If Bresson's films have anything to do with major ideas of Jansenism, it is that they constantly negate it.

The last scene of Bresson's last film is a perfect example. Yvone was a murderer (by the Jansenit theology, he wasn't graced to do good). But in the end, he has found his grace himself. He did a good thing eventually in the moment when he didn't have to. But he defeated his predestination. Suicide is also a way of defeating ones predestination (most of Bresson's films are resolved in suicide). But Jansenism strictly prohibits suicide.

"A Man Escaped" is also a good example. When everybody looses hope, Fontain does not. He fights his destiny. His philosophy is that God can't help you if you don't help yourself. This is as anti-Jansenit as you can get. Actually, this is closer to Islam than Christianity because you can find similar statement in the Holy Quran.

And I left this for the very end, these are Bresson's words:

"I've been called a Jansenist, which is madness. I am the opposite. I am interested in impressions." (Positif interview, Projections 9, p. 4)

~~~~~~

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Look, I really don't want to get into a long theological discussion. The meaning of Jansenist propositions depends on the interpretation of "grace". The meaning you assign it to it (of interior necessitating grace) died out with Pascal - after that Jansenists also accepted the Thomist "efficacious grace" (gratia efficax).

BTW, Wikipedia is also wrong, when it states "The Jansenist idea of predestination, based on Augustine's writing and close to that of Calvinism, was that only a portion of human beings, the "elect," were destined to be saved."
Jansen's original proposition states only: "To say that Christ died or shed His blood for all men, is Semipelagianism".
This is again open to interpretation and the Calvinist one was not the one accepted by most Jansenists.


As to what Bresson said about himself, the best answer is found in the dialogue between Philosophy Master and Monsieur Jourdain in Moliere's "The Bourgeois
Gentleman".

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I strongle disagree. You cannot say that the site is a rip off. It is just how author of the site sees the movie Mouchette and the theme and the lead character. I haven't seen the movie, but the site, which I find intriguing, had me moved so that I want find a copy of the movie.

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excerpt from the site, a letter from the lawyers of madame bresson


"...in addition to profiting for your own notoriety from the renown of the film and the character of Mouchette as imagined by Georges Bernanos, you have distributed photos from the film through your website without authorization, and, by altering them, have perverted their nature.

Finally, your site — and especially your quiz — is truly far from the spirit of the film by Robert Bresson, which deals with a serious subject.Madame Bresson considers that this perversion lacks the respect the author would have wanted for his work, and furthermore constitutes a violation of the moral rights of the author provided by the Code of Intellectual Property Law.

Consequently, we formally demand that you eliminate any reference to the film "Mouchette" and to Robert Bresson, as well as any identification of your site with Robert Bresson, in order to avoid any possible confusion, and that this be done by
September 9, 2002.



enough said

nothing to see here




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The themes on the website have very little to do with the film.

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the last time i viewed that site was 7yrs ago...she was "nearly thirteen" then.
good to see its still drawing in the idiots.

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