MovieChat Forums > The Incident (1968) Discussion > Unrealistic By Today's Standards

Unrealistic By Today's Standards


Since this movie came out, we have action heroes- Dirty Harrys, Rambos, Action Jacksons etc. Heck, we've even had women action heroines. The Incident 2007 would feature the men banding together to stop these punks. Instead, the bad guys finally get stopped by the man who has only one good arm. The other soldier does nothing; the black man stands there and cries as if his balls were cut off. A movie today would focus on fighting back, not being victimized by out-of-control big city crime.

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That's because movies these days are more concerned with fantasy rather than reality. I think the incident was a very realistic movie about human nature and of what happens more often than we would care to think, and still holds true in these times.

People don't like to think about reality these days, and the movies are just catering to that need, with a few exceptions of course.

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saa77,
I appreciate your response. I still stand by my post. Yes, we have become too used to action heroes who come in and save the day. Would this movie as is have a chance against Spiderman 3? I seriously doubt it. I do like movies that deal with real issues (I've never been into sci-fi/fantasy). But people do want to see films where the bad guy gets it in the end. And as we live today with the threats of terrorism and the war in Iraq, if the movies can provide escapism, so be it... as long as you don't confuse them with reality.

As far as the reality of The Incident, I'm not sure how realistic this movie is. Perhaps it was made in response to the Kitty Genovese rape and murder of 1964, where bystanders did nothing while this vicious crime was committed. And I have heard of and seen occasions where people did little, if anything. Obviously, you can't do a whole lot if someone has a gun to your wife's head (or a cop with a gun fondles her like in Crash). But we have seen many real incidents where people have stood up and fought back- for example, Flight 93 on September 11. So it is possible.

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This movie is a thousand times better than Spiderman 3. I could care less about Toby Maguire in speedo tight spandex screaming about like a punk...

THE INCIDENT is quite realistic for it's time...Back then a knife was the equivalent to a gun on the streets.

No *beep* this probably wouldn't happen in todays time. Tell us something we don't already know...

But I suppose Spiderman is saving people at night when I am asleep......

I live to watch YOU die!!!

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<<This movie is a thousand times better than Spiderman 3. I could care less about Toby Maguire in speedo tight spandex screaming about like a punk...

THE INCIDENT is quite realistic for it's time...Back then a knife was the equivalent to a gun on the streets.

No *beep* this probably wouldn't happen in todays time. Tell us something we don't already know...

But I suppose Spiderman is saving people at night when I am asleep......

I live to watch YOU die!!!>>

If you like this movie better than Spiderman 3, it's a free country and you are more than welcome to do so. My comparison is based on the idea that people are conditioned today to see action heroes (Rambo, Die Hard, Bad Boys, Charlies's Angels, superhero films, etc) where the bad guy gets it. No, these films aren't real, and they are not supposed to be. That's why people go to the movies- to escape the bad stuff of everyday life. When people today keep hearing about terrorism, weapons of mass destruction, AIDS, global warming, gas prices and whatever next week's tragedy is, they want to go to the movies to get away from it all... hence the popularity of sci-fi and action films.

I don't recall saying that this would never happen in today's time. It happens all the time. But my comparison here is about a movie, not a real life situation. And I still say that a movie like this would have a hard time selling today. Maybe that's what you don't understand... I've been talking about a movie here, not real life situations. I mean, if there's one thing that keeps getting repeated over and over again here on imdb.com's message boards, it's this: it's just a movie.

You live to watch me die? I don't know what I've said or done to offend you but I hope you can accept my sincere apologies. But I'm glad you don't know who I am or where I live.

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The title of this thread says "UNREALISTIC BY TODAY'S STANDARDS". You basically did say this wouldn't happen in today's time in the freakin subject line (your very unclear)...

I do agree that the movie might have a hard time selling currently since most people life in a fantasy world...and not reality... but you never know.

Live to watch you die is my signature....haha

I live to watch YOU die!!!

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Maybe my message title is as unclear to you as your signature is to me.

If you read my first message (thank you for doing so), you see what I'm talking about.

And you know, the movie does have relevance. I think it could be used very well as a teaching tool to show how pervasive crime is; how a minority can subdue a majority; what happens when people stand by and do nothing; what we thought of our big cities by the late '60s (I'm from the city. Big cities, particularly East coast/Mid-Atlantic cities, got a bad rap after WWII. Growing up in the 1970s, the perception was too many blacks for comfort, crime, drugs, too many blacks for comfort, prostitution, gangs, poverty and too many blacks for comfort... obviously, these perceptions still exist).

As a real story, yes, the movie has realism. But as a movie released today, it would not work. If I'm going to pay $7.50 to see a black man stand there and cry like a baby and not fight back or pay $7.50 to see Will Smith and Martin Lawrence in Bad Boys II, no question where I'm spending my money. Just the same way no one would have paid money to see John Wayne "bitch out" in a movie when you could see him be the man.

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"That's because movies these days are more concerned with fantasy rather than reality"

Exactly.

There was an incident where a man had been drinking and threatened someone. The passengers all just sat there and looked.

Another incident following a baseball game where two young men had threatened a couple. no one did anything and they got off.

As a movie released today, if in documentary form, it would follow the function.

a similar scene in the movie is "The Trigger Effect" where Kyle Machlaclan and Elizabeth Shue are annoyed by two blackmen who talk, but Maclaclan doesnt confront them.

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"MORE" Realistic By TODAYS STANDARDS.. in the time of the incident, people where more apt to stand up to trublemakers and punks. but today? the only difference IS that there are more punks just like them to probubly fight them thats all! as far as you average american, he feels straped to do anything and not get involved. iv seen this first hand in a miami transit system i commuted to work on. "rotten punks" not an bad as these but you get the picture. Today people cant stand up to them beacuse the law protects scumbags!! not good decent americans.

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It's no different today than it was then. I can attest to that from my own experience.

I was standing in line at a convenience store when the clerk behind the counter refused to sell beer to a patron whose ID appeared to be fake to him. Well the young man grabs the clerk by the collar and pulls him onto the counter and starts slapping him in the head. Not less than four men behind him backed off and watched the assault. I, being a retired police officer and armed, drew my weapon and apprehended the piece of garbage. I'm in my fifties and only had the courage to do what I did because I was armed and being trained in tactical matters, knew I had the drop on him. However, the other four men, all in their late twenties or early thirties, did absolutely nothing to help the clerk. He displayed no weapon and really wasn't paying attention to anyone but the clerk. Regardless, the other men chose to retreat rather than get involved.

I'm not being judgemental here. I'm just stating a fact that people are generally afraid to get involved.

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Personally, I thought everybody on the car had bigger pussies than most blue whales have, and if I were on that train, no matter how big or tough the punks may have been (which they werent even), my foot would have made contact with someones face a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time ago.

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I saw this moive on AMC this morning getting ready for work. I only saw (the last) 30 minutes of it but was hooked.

Yes, the two thugs were outnumbered by 4 to 1. What a collecive group of wimps and cowards were the male subway passengers. The two men did not have any visible weapons on them. The one guy brandished a switchblade when he was finally confronted. He turned out to be no match in a physical fight.

This movie is good but leaves you shaking your head at the male characters (subway riders)in the movie. What about Brock Peters' character. He wants to stay on the subway to see the "show", thinking it is fun to see other people humiliated but it eventually happens to him.

I was glad when the the middle age blonde woman confronted the thugs and then confronted her husband on his cowardice.

I would love to see this film in its entirety and would love a dvd release.

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Thanks for being honest about your experience as being a cop and being used to these type of behaviors from thugs. Having been one of those four late twenty to early thirty folks that was pretty much use to a non violent society and suddenly confronted with such, I was paralyzed with the thought "what do I do?" And for most non violent folks that are suddenly confronted with violent situations, our reaction is not knowing what to do. So we do nothing. We wait to take lead from some one else. We all like to say what we would do in such a situation, but the truth is, until you are actually in one, you have know idea.

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[deleted]

"No *beep* this probably wouldn't happen in todays time. Tell us something we don't already know"

Why couldn't this happen in today's time? It most definatly could happen today, in fact it probably does all the time. Many people right here on this board have related their own experiences of similar events like this happening to them in recent years, although since you posted what I'm repsonding to back in 2007, maybe things changed again. Maybe in 2007 more people would stand up to punks like this, now maybe not so much :)

"Back then a knife was the equivalent to a gun on the streets"

Actually, back then a GUN was equivalent to a gun on the streets. You make it seem like people would just laugh now (or was it in 2007?) if they had a knife pulled on them lol Get Real.

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Comparing with Spiderman 3? OMG!!!

Every man has two nations, one of them is France. (B. Franklin)

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[deleted]

[deleted]

"United 93 is a fantasy. It never happened. What happened was the plane was shot down and the fantasy storyline concocted. If passengers would have rushed the cockpit they would have landed the plane as per Airport screenplay."

Here we go again.

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I agree totally....If the punks were armed with only a sole knife as in "The Incident" I can see several men banding together and overpowering these punks. However, on the other hand, if a gun were involved THEN I can see how somthing akin to "the Incident" could happen. I suppose back in the mid 60's this film did indeed base itself on the Kitty Genovese murder since it was still fresh and raw in the 'public psyche'.

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Where do you live ? Some rural Amish community ? This can and does happen in every metropolitan city in the world since as one of the replies so appropriately stated, people don't like to become involved. I challenge you to test your theory by taking a couple of trips in a subway train in any major city in the wee hours of the morning to its poorer suburbs.

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What you fail to understand, as my original post points out, is that I was saying the movie story itself is unrealistic by today's standards. I'll say this one more time... I don't believe a movie like this would sell; it would feature some action hero or the ordinary people themselves standing up to the punks. There have been too many Die Hards, Spider-Mans and Action Jacksons since this film came out. I was not talking at all about a real situation on a subway. In fact, I do live in a major metro area and I have been on the subway late, although it shuts down around midnight. Actually, this particular subway is very clean and safe as I have heard by many.

Public transportation aside, what I don't appreciate are people like you with your disrespectful tone. What is it about people that makes them want to say things like your reply? If you disagree with me, so be it. But show some respect and maturity and your arguments will be much greater appreciated.

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Why did you make this topic? No s*** it wouldn't make money now, It probably didn't make money back in 1967. Do you think indie filmmakers are in it for topping the box office? What you're arguing seems so feeble and obviously pointless to refute, that I wonder why it's even here. Do you need a platform to bemoan the low standards of today's film industry, rampant with explosive action movies and other crap? Because it seems that you're using The Incident in some bizarre context to belittle action and comic book movies, while at the same time disliking The Incident for no apparent reason.

It's unrealistic for today's time because it's realistic for its time, where today surrealism is considered realism. That's what I gather you're trying to say. Congratulations for being disillusioned, no one cares.

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lol
Well said on the disrespectful tone. Welcome to the internet where cyberbullies and keyboard warriors throw their wrath around from the only place they can do it: from the iron shield of anonymity.

Although youtubers are the worst! (You don't like the candidate I'm voting for? You didn't like this song? You don't like my sports team? Then I hope you get CANCER!! Or Lou Gehrig's disease!! Blah Blah Blah)

"You idiot, that's condensation. It's on the outside!"

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Your not being very clear. I get what you're trying to say, that the movie wouldn't sell as well (in 2007? yeah, I know I'm respoding to a post that was made SIX years ago lol but it probably still wouldn't sell as well in 2013 either compared to say a superhero movie). But you're kind of wording it poorly. You're saying the movie story itself is "unrealistic" when what I think you mean to say is that it simply wouldn't be realisitc for the movie to sell well in more recent times (fyi, it didn't sell well then either, and John Wayne movies and other action/western/war/musical movies at the time would have still outsold movies like this though that was starting to change).

And I also have a bone to pick with your penchant for wanting to see escapist action fare and how everyone else apparently wants to too. Imo, it's very lame that, just because there are bad things like you mentioned (terrorism, aids, blah blah blah), doesn't mean you should be so weak in the knees to see a movie that tries to deal honestly and serouisly with the darker side of life. I think that's pretty weak actually, these people that say they want to see these big dumb, fake action movies to escape from all that, becasue I don't think you're escaping form anything. In fact, your escapism, that kind of putting your head in the sand behaviour, is only part and parcel of all the bad things going down. It's just another part of it, think about that. Besides, during the New Hollywood era when for a time more serious, honest, gritty, realistic movies were the norm and doing good at the box office, there was still all kinds of bad things going on in society and in the world like there is now. It didn't stop people from seeing these movies, that's because there was a wave of great directors and writers that were making very interesting and quality movies that people wanted to see, until Star Wars came out and people went back to the ligher, funner, more fluffy fare once that stuff started to take on a new quality and interest with a new breed of directors/writers.

The whole superhero/action movie thing is getting tired and played out now. More people are realizing that their escpaism is not escapism at all, and that there's no where to escape. I find that the shooting in that theatre last year when the new Batman movie was playing to be symbolic of this development: you can't escape away from it anymore, because where you thought you were safe to escape, you are not. Besides, like I said, escapism itself and the fact that people hide away like that is just another one of the horrors out there, right up with terrorism (which they had in the 70s too btw) or whatever else. And now that that horror has been made literal, vicereal, I think things will start to, slowly but surely, change. We're not just going to have big, loud, blockbuster movies dominating forever (they've been dominating now for 35 years as it is). People being people, they're going to eventually crave and NEED something more, something else, something better, someting different, more evolved maybe. A lot of the new action/superhero movies are getting lacklustre reviews and often the ticket sales are down from what they were (even if the movie is still making big money, and don't forget this is especially helped by use of outside contracts with merchandisers, retailers, fast-food outlets, etc, and consider inflation too of course). For instance, a lot of sequels aren't doing as well as their predecessors.

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You missed the point......this one must have been over your head

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I saw this film this morning on AMC. It infuriated me. There are just these two punks harassing this train full of people, but no one (aside from Beau Bridges) does anything to stop them. That kind of nonsense would not happen today. Even if a thug had a knife, people would band togethrr, beat his ass and take his knife. People are not passive any longer. And you never really know who is carrying a gun these days.

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Watched this mourning too. I glued to the tv just waiting for them to stomp these thugs, and it just never happened. Soldier boy didn't even get a thank you at the end. Great movie though.

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I think you overestimate people.

Incidents like this still happen all the time. People are very easily cowed. Human nature hasn't changed, and it certainly hasn't gotten more aggressive. I saw this movie this morning myself, and it's pretty scary how accurate it is. People are afraid of confrontation.

Maybe there might be a person on the train with a gun. But to believe that a handful of unarmed people on a train would take a stand against two armed, violent criminals is pretty naive. There was an incident on a subway recently where three black female teenage passengers verbally and physically harassed a white patron who was apparently minding his own business and nobody on the car did a thing to stop them. These were three unarmed teenagers, not even two armed thugs.

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I've seen plenty of confrontations, on the NYC subway, go on while people just stand by and watch or pretend to ignore them, very, very similar to the way it happened in the movie.

Certain things are different today, obviously. People are more concerned about others carrying guns (either the harassers or Bernard Goetz types) or being legitimatley mentally ill.

As for good samaritans stepping in, I think, today, that would come out in more United-93 type, life-and-death situations, and less so in drunken subway altercations.

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"Even if a thug had a knife, people would band togethrr, beat his ass and take his knife."

Are you kidding me, have you ever been in a big city? This isn't the freaking movies buddy. REAL LIFE is SCARY.

My friend and I had a gun pulled on us in downtown Portland, OR. a few weeks after graduation back in 2001. This guy was was on crack/meth/something and would pull the gun out and wave it and then hold behind his back. He kept wanting cash but we were only carrying credit/debit, but for some reason he thought we were holding out. I'll tell you right now, we were both varity football starters and my friend had previously boxed...but you freeze when some cracked out black guy pulls a gun on you and the vision of taking a slug in the chest becomes a real possibility.

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Why did you have to make note of the fact that he's black?

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Matbe the reason is that "He Was" Black!

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Why not, if he was black?! Someone always jumping up to defend the bad guy. Sheesh, that is part of the reason this crap goes on so much.

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Who's defending him? I just asked why mention that he's black? Why not just say he's a scumbag or something

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You're right, I jumped the gun and read something into your post that wasn't there, and I didn't think before I typed.

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no problem :)
but you're right about people defending criminals. Especially when its scum bag teenagers when they bully weak kids..."Oh, boys will be boys" and "They're just being kids" blah blah

Who was the ad wizard who came up with this one?

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Oh Hush liberal Raindog ###, when U are the vic of a crime, U get a brief description of the suspect to give to the police IF U survive the crime, IF U do.
I lived in Phoenix when they had a meth epidemic in the 90's thanks to sammy the bull gravonoe (that c$cksucker started all this sh!t, the feds should have death penenty his azz) I was CCW trained by DPS who are the best in the state, hell they trained us to shoot down a suspect in a movie theater hostage scene where a bad guy grabs a baby hostage and starts shooting at the crowd, your job was to shoot him w/out missing him nor hitting the baby w/ the lights out infront of U! Talk about tough training semenar. All my shots hit the bad guy. I had special bullets to deal w/ meth heads, hollow pts. w/ a center punch, makes a 9mm act like a 45 almost, makes a real mess. Many times I had to hoster MY sidearm to keep things in control, but many of times I wanted to pull it out but U loss control when that happens unless U are shooting and Only take your weapon out of a hoster to shoot or to clean it, never for anything else, ever! That time of MY life was a good reason to have leather, then 4yrs ago I had crippling pain in my back & there comes a pt. when suicide and/or homicide BECOME an option, that's when a real man hangs his leather up forever! & I'm glad I did it w/ the help of Jesus christ, yeah yeah I'm preaching.
To MR. downtown portland, I'm so sorry U & your friend HAD to face a gun, U didnt chose to, U HAD to face it like a REAL man, god bless ya for staying cool since U are alive to tell us, (even if U p!ssed in your pants, it beats crapping on yourself because of a gunshot wound forcing U to, amen to dat)

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Okay, neo-con. If I'm liberal (I'm pro-gun, pro death penalty, so there goes your label) then say a prayer for me b/c I'm going to hell for not voting for Bush and marrying outside my race. Or are you just another religious blowhards beating his breast in the church and has already received his reward?
So, I'm a little defensive when it comes to race? Well...that's b/c I've met some people who are multi-colored and don't poop myself when they come down the street. And I'm in an interracial marriage and get a little fed up of people doing double takes at Wal mart and McDonalds.
P.S. Who says "hush" anymore? Do you drive a cadillac with steer horns on the grill and wear a white suit?

"You idiot, that's condensation. It's on the outside!"

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Oh n!gga please step off w/ that sh!t. I have my tenents cadillac ROTTING away in the back yard, that's as close as I want to get to a caddy, I have a bus pass & a bike or a zootr scooter to take on the bus depending or I borrow my mothers car once a month to get supples that's it.
As far as church goes, I'm an Inderpendent, got sick of them ALWAYS asking for money, except Joel Olsteen, Jesus NEVER had a church, JUST a following, there's a difference U know.
U owe the Downtown Portland guy a sorrrrrrrryyyyyyyyyyyy, he got robbed, had that been me, I would blown his black azz away like dat, ghetto style homeboy.
Why are people doing double takes, is your wife THAT fine, can I try some of that homeslice or they are gay and checkin' out your fine azz, you NEVER can tell.
F bush & his flaky family, what goes around comes around too toughguy!
I don't poop myself neither, I just say, 'sup N!gga, what's sup!
Okay next time I'll just tell ya, shut da Fck up! Hows that homeboy or should I go back to hush up, I had a small, skinny, black math teacher who used to hush up the class I was in, 30 kids crammed in a room and rodwy as hell, at the end of the term, we could have gone to work for H&R Block, so much for hush up, why cause she had JESUS on her side.

Stay black by buggin' out in "Do the right thing"

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Read the rest of my posts. I never stuck up for the scum bag that robbed him. And that'll be enough message board flaming for me for now my cyber bully man. A wise man once said: "Winning a message board flame war is like winning the special olympics. At the end of the day, you're still retarded."

"You idiot, that's condensation. It's on the outside!"

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Is thats why Bush is called "Dumbya" lolol Oh yeah, that's gotta hurt.

"You idiot, that's condensation. It's on the outside!" Well go collect it, with my water bill the way it is, might as well get me some.

Ya ya, U didn't stick up for the robber but boy U sure as hell jump down on the vic for using the black discription, who cares the black/white issue is so played out so step off the soap box will ya.

"The poh poh's is here, these white cops is crazy, they killed cornbread, he wasn't doing nothing." The four brothers

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The condensation thing is my signature...it's from a Family Guy episode. Alright, I'll acquiesce that maybe i did jump on the vic a bit more than I should have. I got attacked when I was a bartender, so I should've sounded a bit more sympathetic. (the attacker was white like me) Sometimes things on message boards come off differently than if they were actually spoken.
Good day!


"You idiot, that's condensation. It's on the outside!"

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I'm thinking it was the 60's and that's the way it was. But I saw the race card coming a mile away. It was so obvious the way the thugs were acting that something was going to be said about the guy's race.

-stay thirsty my friends

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Because if we know the assailant is negro then that helps explain the situation.

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Bull!Iv seen this First Hand On several ocations punks somplace causing trouble and people doing nothing!! the only differance IS there are more punks today that might want to fight them also. "thats it"! as fare as your average shhmo he will just sit and not get involved. i live in Miami and have seen It! This is one of the most underrated films of the late 60's.

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They had more hero movies before 1967. No one wants to be the first one to get hurt. Planes get Hijacked because no sticks together.

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It wouldn't happen now, not after Giuliani cleaned up NYC.


<<(When there is no more room in Hell, the dead will walk the Earth.)>>

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If you really believe what you are saying, then why was it that out of 4 planes involved in 9-11, in only 'one plane' did the reaction you describe take place?

It's an easy calculation: 25 percent for the reaction you predict today, and 75 percent for what really is more likely to happen.

Allen J. Duffis
Editor
The Conservative Independent
www.conserveind.com

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I just finished viewing The Incident for the first time and was impressed by the acting, directing, cinematography and editing.

The only nagging problem I had with the movie was the unrealistic length of the train ride. I simply couldn't ignore how unbelievably long it was (I mean, you'd have thought they were riding from NYC to Philadelphia!). Of course, the train ride was a dramatic device and needed to be as long as it needed to be in order for events to play out as they were written.

But, that minor (and easily forgivable) criticism aside, I look forward to Criterion someday giving this title the first-class treatment it deserves in the form of a supplement-rich DVD/Blu-ray release.

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