Roger #2


I know they had no choice but to recast when Roger C Carmel refused to return for a second season due to not getting the raise he was promised (due to budget cuts, the other cast members agreed to forgo the raise), but they got the wrong actor to replace him with.

I have nothing against Richard Deacon and loved him in Dick Van Dyke Show and other roles he had, but he didn't fit the part at all. Roger Carmel made the character perfect.

They should have gotten an actor more like Carmel, though I can't offhand think of one. Any one know who might have been better suited for the role?

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It is one of the few times I can recall a show recasting a part with an actor who looks dramatically different than the previous player.

I actually prefer Richard Deacon in the part. He's older and seems to fit in more with the three other "parents", Carmel was way too young for the part (just four years older than his "son"!) and frankly did not seem the kind of personality who would get into all those shenanigans with the older cast. I also think Deacon was the better comedian.

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I agree with you. Carmel seemed more natural playing off Kaye Ballard.

"What do you want me to do, draw a picture? Spell it out!"

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Roger Carmel was just great as Roger Buell and you can tell Kaye Ballard thought he was terrific. I loved the first season of MIL but am a bit hesitant to watch the 2nd season.

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They also changed their relationship (the Buells). It seemed more like Fred and Ethel with Deacon and Ballard

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I too was hesitant about the Richard Deacon episodes. He has his place in television history, but, he is not Roger C Carmel.
But then again he doesnt have to be.
The second season as a whole is as well writen and acted as the first
so it helps a lot as well as amazing guest stars.

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The show definitely feels different with Roger #2.

I think it is safe to say that Carmel ruined a show that would have easily lasted to the early 70s like Green Acres and a few others did. It is a shame what greed can do to a person.

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Agree completely. There was such a great chemistry between Roger and Kaye, you really felt they had a passionate, intense relationship... it seemed like Kaye felt she was cheating on Roger by being with Richard Deacon... and no physical connection at all.

What a pity he got so greedy. I loved this show.

Samantha
"I didn't say that. The camera must have misheard me!"

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Agree completely. There was such a great chemistry between Roger and Kaye, you really felt they had a passionate, intense relationship... it seemed like Kaye felt she was cheating on Roger by being with Richard Deacon... and no physical connection at all.

What a pity he got so greedy. I loved this show.
I haven't seen season 2 yet, but this is a pity! Right when I'm getting to adore this show, I find out that season 2 may as-well have been a different program! I think I would feel like you do about it.

Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!

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"I think it is safe to say that Carmel ruined a show that would have easily lasted to the early 70s like Green Acres and a few others did. It is a shame what greed can do to a person."


Not true.

(1) I agree that Carmel could have taken the money -- about $2,000/week -- and done the show another year. But even if he had, the show certainly would not have been renewed for a 3rd season, let alone limped into the early-1970's like GA. GA had been in the Top 20 a few times. TMIL had not.

(2) The real greedy person was Desi Arnaz. He was collecting 4 salaries -- director, producer, writer, whatever -- and making more money than anybody.

(3) Kay Ballard later told Carmel that he was right: they should have gotten their raises for Season 2, all they did was get 1 more year of working on the show for pocket change while Arnaz made the real big $$$.

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(2) The real greedy person was Desi Arnaz. He was collecting 4 salaries -- director, producer, writer, whatever -- and making more money than anybody.

(3) Kay Ballard later told Carmel that he was right: they should have gotten their raises for Season 2, all they did was get 1 more year of working on the show for pocket change while Arnaz made the real big $$$.
Arnaz wasn't greedy if he was actually putting in the work and the time, which he was. In other words, he earned that money. Greed is when one takes more than they deserve. But, if Arnaz did all that, then he must have deserved it.

I seriously doubt it had anything to do with monetary greed on his part, as much as it had to do with control. He was running a production studio, after all.

Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!

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I think Jack Gilford would have been a MUCH better replacement.

For those that have been looking for this show, METV is showing it (I am not sure of the exact schedule).

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Recastings depend on who is available and worth the part. I've seen actors put in roles thinking they look like who they are replacing, but they can't bring anything new to the role.

Brandon Routh in Superman Returns is one that springs to mind. He may have looked it, but the entire movie relied on that look and didn't try to bring anything else from him, resulting in one rather boring Kevin Spacey-Parker Posey film.

The Jeff Foxworthy Show is another good example, reworking his entire show and family. I'm watching his show rerun now as I didn't watch it at all back then. The changes are interesting.

Surely they could have found a lesser known who looked like Carmel (who I used to think was English).

Alan Hale Jr would have been available and probably would have done it. Wonder why they didn't ask him? He was just as typecast by Gilligan as Deacon was by Dick Van Dyke.

Slap a moustache on him and his gestures are pretty much the same as Carmel.

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I have been reading through the various comments on "ROGER2".
I find these comments accurate, but I have a different take on the
situation of TMIL and its two year stint.

Desi Arnaz in my opinion was one of the smartest men ever to work in the industry. When most think of I Love Lucy & Desilu, Lucille Ball comes to mind. It was Desi who built it - it was Desi who guided it for years (Lucy once called herself "Vice President in charge of Dusting". At first the 'suits' treated Desi like a drum pounding wet back (his words - read his book). This man had more business intelligence than a computer and proved his ability time and time again. If I have not made my point yet, bottom line - Desi was the best. In 1932 he's living in a warehouse with his father cleaning bird cages to eat, and 20 years later he's President and co-owner of what would be the most powerful production company and studio in Television history.

Unfortunately time took its toll. Desi was doing ILL, producing the shows, running Desilu, and working 16-18 hour days 7 days a week. He went past burn out - and eventually (with the aid of Alcohol abuse) lost his position, his power, and his family (Lucy bought him out in 61 or 62).

The Mothers in Law was an attempt to get back - but it was not the 1950's, he did not have the clout he had. It was like trying to get a plane back in the air after the motors were over worked and burned out. It may get in the air - don't expect it to stay there. Desi was acting like it was 1955 and he was producing I love Lucy - he was not and the Networks and sponsors knew it. Had he been more in tune with situations he could have negotiated TMIL to a successful run.

Now the change of Carmel to Deacon. Yea that hurt (no slam to Deacon that man had talent), but it could have worked had Arnaz been working the show and not flying on auto pilot, and false EGO.

Also - read up on Carmel - the man had his deamons. Drugs (some heavy duty) had a lot to play with his decisions. To leave a full season of a series with no replacement gig was not a smart move. I believe his 'decision' to do so was factored more by ego and altered states than a contract dispute. Plus when his name comes up today - people don't say "Oh yea, the guy from the MOTHER IN LAWS, they say - OH YEA HARCORD FENTON MUDD - from Star Trek". [Funny Star Trek - a DESILU PRODUCTION].

Bottom line - you have, albeit a re-worked I Love Lucy concept, some very talented stars of that time, the production quality and live audience presentation known to work in the past - and it failed. Why? in 1955 Desi got General Motors to GIVE 5 or 6 brand new Pontiac Convertables to Desilu for the I LOVE LUCY (Hollywood) episodes. 10 years later he could not get sponsor money to cover expenses. Do the math.

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Excellent post. You made many excellent points.

As far as Carmel, however, I read different things (regarding the contract dispute and his refusal to freeze his salary).

I don't remember all the details. But, the gist of it was that Desi Arnaz was asking all of the actors to take a pay cut (that is, to not get their contractually obligated raises). However, he did not apply the same standard to himself. And he was pulling in five or six different salaries from the show (producer, director, writer, creator, etc.). In a nutshell, Arnaz was being hypocritical. And the story was "spun" that Carmel was the problem, not the other way around.

Many years later, one of the other actors (I believe it was Kaye Ballard) said that Carmel was right all along. And that she regretted her decision to do what she did at that time (i.e., to accept the pay freeze and stay on board for Season #2).

So, I guess there are two sides to every story. It seems to me that Carmel was simply made to be the "fall guy" for this situation.

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Arnaz was not pulling "five or six different salaries". He got a salary as the executive producer, and for the individual episodes where he acted or directed. He didn't get a salary as a creator, because he didn't create the series (Bob Carroll Jr. And Madelyn Davis were the creators), nor did he write episodes.

Arnaz asked everyone to freeze their salaries because NBC wasn't willing to increase the license fee to pay for those raises. What was he supposed to do, deficit finance the show and pay for it out of his own pocket? That would have been foolish.

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I am simply reiterating what I had read/heard.

And, as I stated, I don't remember all the specific details. But what I stated above was the basic gist of the story.

And, again, I point to Kaye Ballard's comments: Carmel was right in his decision and Ballard later regretted her decision.

And, again, there are two sides to every story. The Carmel story about his being obstinate seems just a little too convenient.

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I'm sure they could never have gotten him, but for some reason Joey Bishop pops into my head. He was only 3 years older than Deacon and was already established as a comedic actor.

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I dunno.

Do you think he would be a good fit?

Also, wasn't Joey Bishop a "big name" back then?

I doubt he'd want to "lower himself" and play second fiddle to the two main stars (the female leads: the "mothers-in-law").

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