Not only was there no 397, there was no 7848 or 69636!! - Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? (1966) Discussion

[–] MidgetPig 15 years ago

elaborate please! :)

Fear the Waffle

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The son was not the only game George and Martha were playing that night: The other couple was also a game they made up. Watch the movie through again with that idea in mind and you'll see many subtle hints to it (in the bar all conversation abruptly stops when a worker enters) as well as realize the lives of the made up couple and the struggles they are going through at the beginning of their relationship are actually the past events in George and Martha's life.
This may be the one film that really is better to watch the second time around, if you keep this idea in mind.

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[–] MikeyBabyBooBop 15 years ago

I like this idea that Nick and Honey might not have existed, but I am not sure if I 100% believe it. All conversation stops between George and Martha as well. Surely, they exist.

However, I do think there are a lot of interesting ideas to play with when it comes to the guests. Nick and Honey are very much similar to the young George and Martha. It seems like the entire game is an elaborate warning to them: Don't end up like us.

Maybe they are warning their past selves.

TIME TRAVEL!!!!

- dying ain't much of a living -

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[–] baprice14 15 years ago

I had never even considered this. I mean, it's a little bit of a stretch, but still. The one thing that makes much more sense now is the whole mix up between biology, history and math. For George, he keeps forgetting that Nick is not supposed to be exactly like him, and keeps accidentally replacing biology with history. And for Martha, she keeps confusing biolgy with math ( both sciences). Spooky.

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[–] cookiela2001 12 years ago

<< had never even considered this. I mean, it's a little bit of a stretch, but still. The one thing that makes much more sense now is the whole mix up between biology, history and math. For George, he keeps forgetting that Nick is not supposed to be exactly like him, and keeps accidentally replacing biology with history. And for Martha, she keeps confusing biolgy with math ( both sciences). Spooky. >>

You are all wrong.

George is actually Martha's father, the White Mouse.

They drink to forget their incestuous existence.

Of course, this is why they "cannot" have a child together (possible birth defects).
.

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[–] gribfritz2 12 years ago

So in the past, Elizabeth Taylor's character was really a wife who was a mousey little thing? I don't buy that for a second. I think the couple are very similar to George and Martha in their youth in many ways, but there are enough major differences to prove they're not hallucinations of the past.

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[–] jpbarbo 15 years ago

And what if the young couple was their interpretation of the young George and Martha, always in their mind?

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[–] tedge20 15 years ago

Then why did the waitress bring four glasses for the "last round" at the bar? If Nick and Honey were imaginary, she would have brought two. They could have had N&H say they didn't want another round, the waitress brings out two glasses, and your theory still holds. But as performed, this seems to be an acknowledgment that they are real.

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[–] WHakan 15 years ago

Well that's that, case closed.

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[–] grungemusic3001 14 years ago

I found it a bit weird that the waitress in the bar sets all four glasses down on George's table, rather than distributing one drink to each guest. She also looks at them like they are crazy. It might be because they were there so late, but of that were true why would such an old lady be working a bar at 2am anyway.

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[–] Strazdamonas 8 years ago

I think she sets them down on the table that ordered wanting nothing to do with the people themselves. And she may look at them like crazy because they barged in drunk screaming and shouting at eachother and ransacking the place. If a group like that barged into a bar i was in id stand up and leave.

------------------------------------------------
The spirit of abysmal despair

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[–] noveltylibrary 13 years ago

that don't prove nothing, they were two-fisted drinkers....

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[–] scotbpens 15 years ago

Actually, Nick and Honey were never present in George and Martha's home, the car or the roadhouse. They were illusions created by the Talosians!

All the universe . . . or nothingness. Which shall it be, Passworthy? Which shall it be?

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[–] chimein 14 years ago

I thought this before reading this post and wonder why nobody else mentioned it. The way they left at the end was weird, like they vanished in her mind. The, "just us" statement could be directed toward not only the son gone but them gone too, in their minds. Who shows up at an older couples house that late and stays all night? This conclusion answers all of those questions if they are truly made up or younger versions of themselves.

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[–] 14 years ago

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[–] I_Aint_No_Prophet 14 years ago

Honestly, if I were an upstart professor, I'd drink at a gathering and then have a "nightcap" at an associate professor's home, just to gain a better understanding of my higher-up and to hopefully gain a higher standing within the college community. Then again, I'm prone to bouts of alcoholism, so I'd fit right in... or so I'd hope. Though, I must say that this film may be even more difficult to sit through than Nichols' Closer. Not because they're bad films, but because they're so brutal. Anyone that says that Elizabeth Taylor isn't a good actress needs to watch this film. This is her most convincing work. I'm forever astonished as a result.

"Why do you find it so hard to believe?"
"Why do you find it so easy?"
"It's never BEEN easy!"

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[–] GoddamUnvoicedAbbot 14 years ago

Right. Good observatation!

Antiparanoia is the eerie feeling that nothing is connected to anything else

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[–] snorfinn 14 years ago

If Nick and Honey were imaginary, Martha could not have broken the rule of not being allowed to tell others about their "son" and George would have had no excuse for "killing" him after all those years.

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[–] chisoxfan93 14 years ago

Maybe since she brought the "son game" into the "guests game", which she wasn't supposed to do, he killed the son.

"Say what again! I dare you, I double dare you!"

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[–] stevem-26 14 years ago

What do the original poster's numbers mean, please?

( 397, there was no 7848 or 69636)

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[–] SherlockVonEinstein 13 years ago

it's a code.

the numbers translate to: son, nick, honey.

he was trying to avoid posting a spoiler in the subject line.

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[–] New_Wind 13 years ago

i think not only son and not only Nick and Honey but even Martha and George were themselves imaginary too. But wait in whose imagination? Now .. i am really afraid of Wolfe.

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[–] piloto117 13 years ago

(Spoilers)

Checkout the last scene where both couples resemble the same posture/position. Both women are crying and both men are leaning against the wall.
And yes, once they leave Martha questions if it's just them now, just the two of them. Meaning they're alone for real this time, no more fantasy son nor fantasy "guests".
The 4 glasses at the bar doesn't prove anything; they could very well be 2 of them ordering "doubles" just for the sake of it.
I don't think it was the author's choice or vision; to create a ficticious couple, but I like the theory and it provides a totally different perspective of the games they play.

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[–] 13 years ago

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