MovieChat Forums > Tôkyô nagaremono (1966) Discussion > Very stylish, but...

Very stylish, but...

posted 19 years ago by Ghrifter
29 replies | jump to latest

The boards here seem kind of one-sided in favor of Mr. Suzuki, so I thought I'd play the dissenting opinion. Now don't get me wrong, I love style as much as the next guy... but this movie was kind of jarring. Not the violence or anything, but mainly the editing, which I suppose is part of the style of the movie and what people like about it.
The editing in some sequences, as I have said earlier, seemed hard to follow. I've only seen the movie once, perhaps I should watch it again(but then again, its supposed to be more of a stylistically influenced piece than a complex drama). Its not everything about the movie, but some examples would be

** SPOILER **

When Tetsu leaves the guy that is supposed to help him, at the train station, then the rival group attack that group anyway. Tetsu comes after everyone is dead and takes on like 20 baddies by kind of flailing around and still leaves like 10 thugs with guns behind him when he turns around to shoot that one assassin in the eye. Know where I'm talking about? And then it just cuts to him 'drifting' down the road to some other unknown destination. Now to me, the drama was how he was going to get out of a situation where there were still an overwhelming amount of enemies with weapons, yet scene change.

Also his boss completely changing sides like that? Didn't seem very convincing.. all that happened was some guy(who was that guy his lawyer?) just says that Tetsu is still a vulnerability(well it was the other boss that said it, but his lawyer-man agreed with that statement so Kurata just blindly followed it). Seemed kind of forced..

Maybe I'm just old fashioned but the editing threw me for a loop. Everything seemed like it was missing a piece. I'll give you that the editing was ahead of its time, but that doesn't make it any less disconcerting.

In the end that's what most affected me, "Wow THIS was made in 1966?". But I wouldn't have thought it'd be a classic. A classic of its time, perhaps. Maybe that's why its considered to be such a mainstay of cinema, I can see how Anime or Tarantino was influenced by this, but it just didn't entertain me. How many people can honestly say that a Lumiere film was "interesting", right? Its all a matter of taste, but maybe I missed something, and that's what I ask of the forum.
Is it that you like this genre of film, of which this is a classic or did this film speak to you in some transcendent way above the style. Because in the end, style becomes nothing without substance.

P.S.- This is what part of the alphabet would look like if Q and R were eliminated. - Mitch Hedburg

[–] ClydeBickle 19 years ago

I love this movie in the same way I love Pulp Fiction, Raiders of the Lost Ark, or Alphaville. Tokyo Drifter entertains on an unusually high level, the way it cuts forces you to reconsider your perception of time and space. Wasn't that guy over there? Where did he come from? How come he didn't notice him? All the Suzuki films I have seen fascinate me that way. I guess the reason we love this film is not because of "trancsendent meaning" but rather because it's a different way of looking at film, no less entertaining than say, Spielberg or Cronenberg has to offer, just different. And I appreciate that you don't like the movie, there are LOTS of people who can't stand thie movie or Branded to Kill. But hey, there are actually people out there who don't like The Godfather, so go figure.

"Death to Videodrome! Long live the new flesh!"

[–] ParamedicFoetus 19 years ago

I can see where the original poster is coming from but i do disagree. While the jumping between scenes could have been disorientating i found the way this film was done anything but that. It served to show the interesting parts of the movie or the parts that had a point and it let the viewer work out what happened in between. The movie was more fast paced and exciting for it.

[–] squelcho 19 years ago

For a 40 year old movie, it hasn't aged too badly. As a piece of lightweight figurative film making, it's fairly easy on the eye, and soft on the brain.
It reminds me of the Dean Martin boozy spyguy movies from the same era. Pure fantasy, suspension of disbelief, and guns that never miss.
I seem to recall a few contemporary David Hemmings and Terence Stamp movies that had a similar sort of blase attitude to plot and the cleanliness of sudden death. Danger Man and The Avengers tv series also referenced the same type of loose "swinging" 60s camp surrealism and made it acceptable to a wider audience.
Tokyo Drifter is little more than Get Smart, Yakuza Style, so anyone looking for the divine light of high art is probably missing the trendy trash aesthetic.
Lower your expectations and see it in context. Suzuki Seijun isn't a deity: he's just an offbeat movie maker.

[–] OllieZ 19 years ago

I think it is okay - seemed longer than 89 minutes - and there are lots of better films out there to watch.

[–] elnegromagnifico 18 years ago

I just finished watching it, and I loved it. I found it visually arresting , kind of like a gritty "Le Parapluies de Cherbourg". It was just filled with color! I'll watch it again.

[–] Kuma_no_geppu 18 years ago

i wasn't bothered that much by the seemingly sloppy editing, because i was just so overwhelmed with the minimalist sets and all of the usage of colors for symbolism and such. i felt it was easy to overlook. plus the theme song is so damn badass, especially in the bar scene when he's lying on the ground and the other dude thinks he's dead and then he just starts whistling his theme song. awesome flick.

[–] RossLikesMovies 18 years ago

I noticed these kind of things to. Theirs another big one where Tetsu is fighting with the guy in red and all of a sudden it just cuts to another shot which the red guy isn't even in. Or something to that effect. It does throw you off but I think its just quite a normal thing in asian cinema. They obviousoly perceive the film making process differently to us. Its as if they dont feel the need for complete reality. Its only like Ozu breaking continuity just to show a room from a different angle. Crossing the 180' line as it were. You get these funny cuts in some of Kitanos films to. Just look at violent cop, they happen all the time!

Last Film... Tokyo Drifter - Suzuki - 8/10.

[–] edwinjefferson 16 years ago

I found it slow and tedious, once the drifting started. Before that, it was quite a good film.

[–] tedr0113 18 years ago

Having just watched this...well, I can see how it influenced QT...and I suppose if I saw it in 1966 how I would have been amazed...but honestly, the film seemed to verge on incoherence. It was very hard to follow and after a while I gave up trying to make sense of the plot. Maybe it does make sense after several viewings..and maybe it's a bit easire to follow if you are Japanese or more well versed in Japanese movies than I am but...the style wasn't enough for me to grab onto it right now.

[–] RossLikesMovies 18 years ago

I found it easy enough to understand, you do need to concentrate I think. I have seen a lot of asian films though so I know what you mean about not being accustomed top them.

Last Film, IZO - 4/10

[–] Narrator_Jack_dot_com 18 years ago

Great look to the film, good framing of scenes, i didn't expect the very cool color effects in the midst of black and white shots

[–] marblemadness-2 18 years ago

I wasn't confused by the plot so much as the poorly translated and awkwardly phrased subtitles of whatever version I saw. Knowing Japanese would have definitely helped me. Other than that, I found the film pretty much knockout awesome.

[–] Charles_Bronsons_Stache 18 years ago

INCREDIBLE film. Especially the inventiveness of the ending.

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] oscarbreath 18 years ago

You don't think Japanese guys call each other "bro" all the time? At least that's the word they kept using in the version TCM just aired.

I didn't find the plot confusing so much as boring. I don't mind a film I can't always follow (lots of noir is this way), you generally catch up at the end, but it needs to be inventive and not let my mind wander. This film felt long. None of the set pieces were anything unusual; any Western worth its saddle has at least 2 better saloon brawls than this film. It was neither a gangster nor a noir nor a neo-Western, just a thing.

I can see the director was trying, so I have to give him credit for that, but he didn't pull it off.

[–] happybobjr 18 years ago

I wasn't impressed either. The most memorable thing was the most blatant product placement of the freaking hair dryers. Hair dryers?! What the heck was that all about? I got the two good laughs out of the two times the hair dryers were discussed and that was about all I found noteworthy.

[–] Error_message 13 years ago

"You don't think Japanese guys call each other "bro" all the time? At least that's the word they kept using in the version TCM just aired."

It's Aniki, which means "older brother." It's a term of respect for yakuza.

[–] albers-bill 17 years ago

Stylish is about all this movie seemed to be, the director worked so hard on being stylish he forgot to tell a believable story, or, to put it together in a way that was believable, take your pick. At times I think he was trying to emulate a spagetti western and at one point a John Wayne then I got it...."Peter Gunn" without the taughtness
As you may have guessed by now, I did not care for the film, but maybe that's because I was raised on Film Noir and have adopted Kurasawa as a maker of "Classic" Films
I would give this film a 2....for the use of color

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] dekonstruktr 17 years ago

yeah i think while this movie was incredibly stylish, the story was a pretty bland, run of the mill yakuza story..

[–] dude_guy99 16 years ago

well thats the studio system for you
Suzuki was handed scripts by the studio and told to shoot them back when Nikkatsu was all gung-ho over gangster flicks, this is what he gave them
they were on the verge of firing him because he kept doing bizarre things that they weren't expecting
and then he did Branded To Kill and got fired

I Was Here But I Disapear

[–] outsider-2 15 years ago

I'm watching it for the first time and I was thinking the same thing about the editing. Really jarring and weird. I think I need to watch it again!

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] outsider-2 15 years ago

I never finished it myself.

[–] multiplepov-1 14 years ago

If stylish and incomprehensible equals good, then collect a lot of cards of still shots that seem evocative to you, place an old French cabaret song on the turntable, and toss the cards in the air. After they land, stare at them for 89 minutes and you have this movie.

Watching Tokyo Drifter, I could see that the visuals and choice of music likely influenced better works such Cowboy Bebop. But two good elements do not a good film make.

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"I've always resisted the notion that knowledge ruined paradise." Prof. Xavier

[–] jtfriday2000 12 years ago

I "drifted" to sleep watching Tokyo Drifter. It was real boring. I agree that a lot of the situations were forced. And yes, the editing was jarring.

My sig: why do almost all movies on imdb have a "worst movie ever!" thread?

[–] Ramuna 12 years ago

When I stumbled upon old movies with great appraisal but aching me to finish it, it always occurs to my mind that it might be a great movie once but some elements must have aged so well and things might be completely different by the time it was released, so I would just give it a break and move on...

[–] JellyFish19 7 years ago

I know what you mean. As fast-paced as it was, sometimes I had to stop or rewatch a part because of the jumpy editing to understand what just happened. I wanted to like it more, but this movie was just all over the place.

[–] fsvr54 (43) 4 years ago

Damn, this was great. A lot of hate on here.