MovieChat Forums > Hawaii (1966) Discussion > DVD what parts are cut?

DVD what parts are cut?


On the DVD what parts are cut.
Because if you think about it if the cut the Intermission and Enter'ceret (however you spell it). is cut that is 30 mins right there. I know people are talking about it being cut by 30 mins. Is this the 30 mins yall are talking about?

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No, there's about 20 minutes of story which were cut during the initial release. The Intermission and the Enter'act (I probably spelled it incorrectly) take up about 10 minutes. Most of the cuts were in the first half of the film, but there are other significant cuts later on. I think these edits were (in part) because the public was a bit shocked by some of the scenes. If you'd like, I can be more specific as to the cuts. Sometimes whole scenes were cut - otherwise scenes were cut short.

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I watched the movie last night not knowing there was ever a longer version. Since I'll probably never seek it out, I'd be interested in knowing more specifically what was cut. Thanks.

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I havn't seen the whole DVD yet, but some part that are cut are:
The whole bananna on the bost, Which I loved the part when she throws the banannas overboard and says something like "I will not be bully by you, Abner."
When Abner leaves home. Basiclly you go from praying at the table to the horse and bugy pulling up to Jerusha's town.
That is all I can remember right now, and like I said before I havn't watch the whole DVD yet.
I really think I would have liked to have the longer verson. But since I only spend about $15 on the DVD I think it was a alright buy.
Also I think in the DVD since they have taken off some of the stuff, it makes Jerusha alittle softer. But I think she was better with more edge.

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It's absolutely true that the 30 minutes of cutting detracts mostly from Jerusha's character and the overall mood of the film. Her post-wedding scene is cut and this is unfortunate because we see Jerusha comforting her little sister [the one who dies] who doesn't want to see her go so far away, a moment that comes back to mind later on when Jerusha reads the news of her death. Prior to this, a scene involving Abner's family--the farewell with his sisters and Mother--is entirely cut. This is too bad because the cold, repressed family is such a stark contrast to the open warmth of the Bromleys--and it gives us a clear picture of why it is nearly impossible for Abner to let himself feel and express love.

The boat trip from New England to Hawaii suffers perhaps the most time being cut--and it is here that we experience Jerusha as a strong force, able to stand up to Abner at his most controlling and intolerant. Later, there are important scenes of gentle intimacy between them that are cut--scenes where he promises to make sure she will not die in childbirth [which has resonance later on when she almost does], and a tender scene in which she cares for him after the shark attack: he confesses that he sinned in taking her away from Rafer and that he continues to sin by keeping her from him; He says that he cannot love her and God and she answers that God is to be worshipped and that she wants only to be loved as a woman. The most dramatic cut scene occurs when the deformed offspring of Keoki and Noelani is drowned by Keoki. When she learns the truth of what happened, Jerusha stands up in the middle of Abner's sermon, takes the children with her, and denounces his actions publicly before storming out of the church. It is a breathtaking moment when she defies him so publicly.

The one thing you get with the dvd is the charming featurette about the making of the film. For that reason, it's worth having, but I do recommend trying to at least rent the fully-restored VHS version, which is also in its original format, so you see the entire gorgeous frame full of exotic beauty.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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Milliedil - you are so right about the edited scenes. Why did the studio make so many cuts, particularly the ones you mentioned? Why didn't they cut some of the boring, endless scenes of people walking?

Re Abner's fever scene: I think this was a bit more ambiguous. Abner doesn't specifically say that he sinned against her - another interpretation is that Abner means that he sinned against God. "I sinned the day I married you, and I sin this day in keeping you," (I think that's the way the line goes) doesn't necessarily imply he sinned by keeping her from Rafer. It could also mean that he still thinks he loves her more than he loves God, and therefore he's sinning against God, not against her. Her reaction "God is spirit, I am flesh. God is to be worshipped - a wife needs only to be loved" sort of suggests to me that she is trying, once again, to explain to Abner that loving her isn't a sin at all, and that he doesn't have to choose her over God or God over her. It's a very interesting, almost mysterious scene. Sometimes I do agree with you that Abner is confessing to her that he's sinning against her, but other times I think he's confessing that he's sinning against God.

I totally agree with you about all the other scenes. I especially love it when she walks out of the church. When I saw this on VHS, I couldn't believe it! Why did they cut it? Probably because the studio didn't want John Q Public to see Julie/Mary Poppins/Maria von Trapp do such a thing.

"The kind that doesn't have to prove it - to you or anyone else"

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Hi. I've heard that it was cut because it was considered too long and the studio (stupidly) thought that people won't sit through a 3 hours + movie. They did the same thing when "Fiddler on the Roof" was reissued in 1980--a solid HALF HOUR was cut rendering the story incomprehensible and completely deleting some subplots.
Also "Hawaii" was never a big hit. If it where we would probably see the full version.

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I experienced the same disappointment when FIDDLER was re-released, particularly since the studio declined to advertise it as such.

You are mistaken, however, about HAWAII' status as a hit. It was the number one grossing film released in 1966, earning an amount that would translate roughly to $225 million in today's market. However, both THE SOUND OF MUSIC and DOCTOR ZHIVAGO actually earned more than that amount in 1966, but they were 1965 releases. The truncated, cheaply produced dvd version is a result of regime change at the ownership source; Mirisch Pictures/United Artists, which originally produced the film, no longer had control over the cut and the releasing studio stupidly and short-sightedly pressed an edited master for the dvd, despite the fact that the last vhs version was a pristine restoration of all the original road show footage.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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Sorry about that--I (incorrectly) heard "Hawaii" bombed. Then it SHOULD have been given a proper DVD release. Ah well---maybe next time. Look what happened to "Fiddler...". After that edited release back in the late 1970s they NEVER showed it again like that--every showing I see on TV is complete.

And that IS a great line from "Victor/Victoria":)

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I understand the mistake because I have seen a number of sources that incorrectly state that HAWAII and THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE both bombed when, in fact, they were enormous hits (MILLIE earned about the same amount as HAWAII and was a Top 10 hit for 1967--I believe it was the 6th or 7th biggest box office sucess of that year).

Thanks--glad you like my sig. Nothing beats Robert Preston's warm heart and expressive countenance in V/V.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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OK--I heard "Thoroughly Modern.." bombed too! To be honest I was never too thrilled with it. I saw it uncut on TV many years ago and boy--did it need EDITING--LOL Still there are a lot worse movies. And yeah--Robert Preston was great!

"I think the right girl could change you around."
"You know I think the right girl could change YOU around!"

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Julie Andrews herself felt that THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE needed substantial cutting and shaping prior to its initial release. She believed it might be a "great little picture" but was stretched beyond its modest limits by being turned into what was then a rather conventional "road show" engagement [which, in case you aren't familiar with the notion, happened to a lot of big movies during the late fifties and sixties].

In order to lure people away from their televisions and back into the cinemas, big movie productions were shown in limited engagements at reserved seating venues, like a Broadway show and, in order to "give them their money's worth," the pictures were long and invariably included an overture, intermission, en-tracte music and exit music. Souvenir books and programs were also usually sold at the concession stand. Thus, a cute little story like MILLIE [have you noted my IMDB name, by the way?], which could have been a breezy, perfect 90-minute lark, becomes a two and half hour extravanganza with a protracted plot that runs out of steam much too soon.

Still, it has plenty of fun moments and engaging performances, and was beautifully produced and scored.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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Yes I know all about "road show" productions. They were pretty big in the 1960s but died in the early 1970s. I remember "Hello Dolly", which could have been a good little decent movie, was blown all out of proportion. Aside from the miscasting of Barbra Streisand (I love her but she was too young) and Walter Matthau (who can't sing...or act), they just dragged out all the production numbers to a ridiculous length. I know for a fact that "Hello..." bombed badly. Another is "Ryan's Daughter"--a decent little love story just blown all out of proportion. I believe "1776" was one of the last (that bombed too).

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I do love 1776 and cherish memories of its initial release. The dvd version restored much footage, including the COOL COOL CONSIDERATE MEN musical number, and it's something to witness after all these years.

I recently purchased the dvd of RYAN'S DAUGHTER after waiting so many years for it and, alas, the small screen does not do it justice. It was amazing on the big screen, though--and only later did we learn that Christopher Jones's entire performance had been dubbed (by Michael Jayston of NICHOLAS AND ALEXANDRA fame, if I am correct]. I had considered it to be the best picture of 1970 for quite a while but now favor both FIVE EASY PIECES and M*A*S*H over it.

HELLO, DOLLY is such a guilty pleasure for me. So much of it is just bad--the casting sank the film before a frame was filmed--yet I love the spectacle of it and the vibrancy of its production. But what can you say about an immense film failure of an immense stage success when the best parts of it turn out to be the sets, costumes and sparkling performances of two minor players [Danny Lockin and E.J. Peaker are sheer joy and perfection as Barnaby and Minnie]? It takes a woman, to be sure ... but Streisand was NOT that woman. Matthau gets a free pass from me on this one.

"Thank you, thank you--you're most kind. In fact you're every kind."

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I also love "1776" even if it IS a bit too long.

I was lucky enough to see a vault print of "Ryan's Daughter" many years ago at a repetory theatre. The scenery blew me away---but it was WAY too overdone.

"Hello Dolly"---well, I love Streisand so I have it as a guilty favorite too:)

"You go your way Mr. Vandergelder--I'll go mine"

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[deleted]

On amazon the dvd was discontinued from MGM so maybe they are going to rerelease the full version..

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I saw "Hawaii" on 35 millimeter in 2001 at the Ohio Theater Summer Movie series in Columbus. They showed the 190 minute version. After having watched the 161 minute DVD and finding it more single-minded (Abner Hale behaving stupidly toward the Hawaiians while his wife mostly stands around, then dies off-screen) than the film I'd seen then, which I found quite thoughtful, powerful, and complex, I went back to the 1990 laser disc, which I'd kept. The liner notes read:

"Originally released in 1966, 'Hawaii' was premiered in New York as a special exclusive engagement. It ran 189 minutes and, as was customary for roadshow presentations, included overture and exit music as well as an intermission.

Upon its worldwide theatrical release, the extra music and intermission were dropped and the film was re-cut to a 161-minute version. Unfortunately, the camera negative and sound masters for the deleted footage did not survive and the roadshow version was thought to be lost forever.

In a collective effort, "Hawaii" now has been restored to its original 189 minute roadshow version. Among the players were producer Walter Mirisch, who provided a complete set of release print sections which were removed from an original preview print. Music masters for the entire roadshow score were provided by composer Elmer Bernstein. Meanwhile, leading man Max Von Sydow was busy in Stockholm, Sweden, re-recording passages of his dialogue which had been lost.

The picture portion of the new video master was a combined digital film-to-tape transfer of the color master of the short version and the preview print sections, which had faded significantly after many years. The color was electronically restored (not colorized) and the audio was then digitally reconstructed and re-mixed."

Thus the current masters of MGM/UA chose to issue on DVD the late-sixties cut version. I assume that the roadshow version played in first-run engagements in najor cities around the world. The cut version was probably prepared for the second run release, which was usually advertised as being shown in "continuous performances at popular prices." This, I'm assuming was also the version that was sold to network television. But when the time came to put the film on VHS and boutique-market laser discs, similarly butchered films such as "Lawrence of Arabia" and "Spartacus," the filmmakers and MGM-UA (before the Turner sale to Time Warner transferred the MGM and RKO libraries and pre-1950 Warner Bros. left the company with only post-1951 United Artists films and other aquisitions) were in a restorative mood. Why the company in 2005 dipped back to the original cut version, I can't imagine.

I'm in the midst of transferring my laser disc to DVD. From a cursory look at the roadshow version, it looks as if even more than 28 minutes had been excised. I'll have some more to say about this later. Andrews does suffer in the cut version, but since it was done, probably in mid-1967, when she was still a big star (and had top billing), the reasoning is truly hard to figure The Amazon "Hawaii" page has some good posts also detailing the cuts. Hopefully, it will be true that the reason MGM/UA has let the 2005 DVD go out of print is that it's preparing to reissue the 189 version.

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That's great that the 190 minute version was screened as recently as 2001 (albeit in 35 mm) and it gives me hope that perhaps one day I'll see the complete version on the big screen, where it belongs. Back in 1966 I saw the cut version (161 min) and I had always thought that I'd seen the complete film. Imagine my surprise when I got the laserdisk!

I did some research on this and found out that in 1966 it was released in ten cities. This was the complete 190 minutes version. Then (for God only knows what reason, although I have my suspicions) the prints were recalled and the studio ordered George Roy Hill to cut it down. He was understandably angry at this, but at any rate they did edit it (arrgghh - why didn't they take out the boring parts and leave Jerusha's character intact!) and then re-released it still as a roadshow. This must have been a real rush job, because I'm fairly certain I saw the movie in December. This was on a reserved seating basis. Just the same, what a thrill it was - I'll never forget how excited I was when the that stagecoach rumbled into Walpole, with Elmer Bernstein's glorious score in the background. And Julie was unbelievably gorgeous in that film - just breath taking.

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Interesting thread.

I recorded the movie off network TV late one night in the late 80s. This was the cut version - obviously the one released for national television broadcast (although I'm sure the more "nipply" shots were excised or zoomed-in on).

Because the quality of my video recording was shoddy, eventually I bought the two-videotape release sometime later in the 90s. I don't remember any additional footage of the much-discussed scenes in question. I later bought the DVD, and still didn't notice anything missing - until I came across this thread.

The length of Michener's novel obviously necessitated elimination of many plot elements (including most of the novel), but it also resulted in characters that were exquisitely detailed. I think the scriptwriters - even though they knew they were working to edit the story down - nevertheless ended up trying to detail the characters via the many scenes that were then edited out for the film's general theater release.

I think the reason for the edits was simply money. "Hawaii" was the most successful film of 1966 (according to IMDB), but that doesn't mean that the producers were initially happy with the film's box office receipts. I'm sure the edits were ordered to allow for one more showing of the film during the day (cutting out 1/2 an hour means that, at the end of the day, at least one additional showing of the edited movie was possible) - and thus more box office receipts.

In fact, the release of a shorter version "Hawaii" may have been the single reason *why* the film was so successfully financial in 1966: more showings per day resulted in more profits.


"Don't call me 'honey', mac."
"Don't call me 'mac'... HONEY!"

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Arrived late to this discussion, but there may have been run-time issues related to the DVD media technology back in 2004/2005 (likely when a decision was made for the DVD release for 2006). Both the companies doing DVD mastering and those actually mass producing the DVDs were on an "allotment" basis for quite some time, running at full capacity, and scheduling work a year or more in advance. Whether that had been reduced or solved by that time, I do not know.

One of the annoying features about a two tape VHS (or betamax) version is the two tapes that must be changed. I don't have that laserdisc set, but I would guess it is two, two-sided laserdiscs, and you still need to change out the first disc with the second, even if you have a fancy player that automaticly 'flips' the disc.

Furthermore, the laserdiscs in the original releases (generally pre-1980) were VERY expensive, (1970s dollars at around $100 per movie), and intended to be for the elite and film afficiados. There were limitations in the color pallette available to the laserdisc format, (and 425 lines resolution, compared to DVDs 480 lines), and long movies came out post-1980 in EP mode (compressed video, but sound was still 64k-bit sampled, unless it was better quality DTS which is pretty much the same as DTS on Blu-Ray discs), and the final side was the uncompressed CAV (Constant Angular Velocity versus EP Extended Play) video format, as was the original laserdisc releases, but in the $30-$50 range for "ordinary" versions. DVDs on the other hand have a 64K color pallette available in the format, but the video and sound were both compressed to fit in the single density, single-sided media, with the dual layer media costing more to produce than the movie on two discs, or the annoying 2-sided single layer format. Image and sound compression helped more 'content' fit onto the cheaper discs. Additional "squeezing" was practical as computers became more powerful and adaptive compression of the video became available, but led to visible pixellation in background areas of the picture, like blue skies, desert sands, or trees/bushes, and could be 'tweaked' by human interaction (as usual, that cost more too).

The difference in lines of resolution between VHS (320), laserdisc (425), and DVD (480/500) makes transferring a laserdisc to a commercial-grade DVD a non-trivial task, so the "original" source of the longer laserdisc material would be very desireable/required, (preferably as film), but the laserdisc write-up might indicate it was digitally processed specifically for the laserdisc format.
Soooo, that might have influenced the decision in favor of the 161 minute version for the DVD, (available film source). BTW I have started watching the DVD, and I have not noticed pixellation, (yet, at about an hour into the movie).

Or, MGM Archive (and the other studio's archives, WB, SONY, Universal and Amazon) does have MOD (Made On Demand, using DVD-R media) through their archive website (around $19.99 to $24.99 plus shipping) for things it is making available that were out of print. I have not looked to see if HAWAII is available that way, (yet).

Also, Hollywood has long been seeking a way to get paid each and every time their intellectual property is played, and "the world" seems to be rushing headlong into giving the IP owners their wildest dreams via streaming video instead of downloaded or physical media (VHS/laserdisc/DVD/Blu-Ray/MOD).

I seemed to notice the 'better' movies being MOD, re-releases, or even Blu-Ray, but that comes down to who owns the rights, how large is the market demand, and how much will/does it cost, plus whether there is some sort of suitable "master" available.

In the last few years though, there are at least six 'alternate' Blu-Ray and DVD publishers that have also been releasing versions of odd movies, and some have not been out of print for very long, (like THE SURE THING, X-RAY, PHANTOM OF THE PARADISE, THE BODYGUARD, G.I. JANE, CAT PEOPLE, POLTERGEIST, BIG, BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS, even the original FRIDAY THE 13TH series, among many). IMHO, a number of those movies seem to have no real benefit from a Blu-Ray version, except to sell a copy to the public.


=======>> Edited To Add The Following Information 04-15-2016 <<=======

I did get one of the laserdisc copies of HAWAII, and the information about it is the following:

-- Two laserdiscs, four sides EP mode; (over three hours, with side two ending displaying "Intermission").

-- 1985 Copyright, so that predates the DVD release by almost 20 years.

-- It is a letterbox presentation, with the black bars at the top and bottom, preserving the original aspect ratio.

-- The laserdisc version is "uncut", (so it says)

-- Without trying to 'spot' all the places that are longer scenes, or those that were cut in the DVD version, the time seems to be spread out across many scenes, and many parts of the movie. I did notice several things made sense to me as I watched the laserdisc version, compared to the DVD version.

-- There were quite a few of what I would ordinarily consider "film artifacts" that I saw in the laserdisc version that probably were really film defects, even though the laserdiscs advertise "Restored". (My copy seems to have one "glitch" that is digital in origin, and unrelated to 'laser rot'. Viewed in slow motion or step mode, there is one frame with the top 1/4 of the movie image resembling a checkerboard pattern.)

There is plenty of room to debate what exactly "restored" may mean in this case. If it came from a film source, colors usually fade or change over time, and the work may have only been 'fixing' the colors, without correcting tiny spots where parts of the film emulsion had flaked off, leaving a white dot in its place. Since the laserdisc version is dated 1985, the computer power required to fix that sort of thing from a 1966 film did not really exist. (Certainly not even close to what current "restoration" can accomplish!)

The DVD version has none (or so few that I didn't even notice) of those film artifacts, so it probably did a "complete" restoration to the color and film artifacts, and it likely did not start from the laserdisc version. It is also possible that the two versions originated from different physical film copies, which could also have been the source of the cuts. (Or it could have been cut for time to fit on a single-sided, dual layer DVD.) All that could explain why there was so much time between the laserdisc and DVD versions.



=======>> Edited To Add The Following Information 04-18-2016 <<=======

"I did notice several things made sense to me as I watched the laserdisc version, compared to the DVD version."

One of those things is a combination of continuity issues, and the darkening(?) of a sequence. After Alii Nui announces the new laws, including sailors must be on their ships after sunset (curfew), the sailors state they will not obey that new law.
The DVD version shows the Hawaiians lined up on the beach with several different shadow lengths! The first camera cut shows the sun behind some clouds, above the horizon and reflecting off the calm sea as they show the boats of sailors coming from the ships, viewed from the island. It is a beautiful sight. The next cut shows the Hawaiians from the side view with the sun at about a 45 degree angle (sun higher in the sky). Both showed a calm sea. The next cut shows the boats reaching the sand, sailors jumping out with their oars to fight their way to the island, and two of the boats getting pushed onto the sand by waves (what calm sea?), one boat striking a sailor, and a second boat turning over on top of a second sailor. Hand to hand and oar to paddle or stick fighting goes on, and eventually spills into the town square, where the men's shadows are very small; high noon! Within a minute, the next cut is dark, looking toward the town, showing it is fully nighttime, and three or four buildings are burning, and the sailors are moving up the road toward the church, carrying lit torches to burn the church. Pretty much no fighting was done in the dark. So did the fight start in the morning, and go on all day? Confusing.

The laserdisc version shows near dark (after sunset) when the boats come toward the island, and all the fighting is done in the dark. Then the sailors come up the road toward the church with lit torches. One fight in the same evening!

Now, see how much simpler the laserdisc version was?
That also strongly suggests a different film copy was used for each version.


Also, while it may be due to the settings of my flat screen TV, or the different shape of the digital flat screen and the analog TV may be significant, the black bars of the DVD version are much smaller/thinner than the black bars shown on an analog TV, from the laserdisc version.

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There is a new BluRay release of both HAWAII and THE HAWAIIANS now out.
According to the information, the BluRay has the same material as the laserdisc release, but in 1080p format. Also on that version is the original presentation version which includes the three music segments!
That is the good news.

The bad news is that it is a limited release of only several thousand copies, (from a private releasing studio, not a major studio), and the original presentation is only in the DVD resolution/format, but is included on the "BluRay" media in the 480p resolution, presumably with the much larger color range as a superior version...
More 'bad news' is that the limited re-release is NOT inexpensive, with them selling around $50 and up. My/your local video store probably will never get a copy, (even used), and the orders have long since sold out(?).



The information I have seen does not compare that limited release to any previous versions, but *they* should certainly know about any differences, including whether compression was used.
BTW, I have noticed a lot of "uncut laserdisc" copies (longer than the DVD release versions) have been showing up for sale on eBay, so it would seem people have upgraded their movie library to the latest technology, and have let go of their laserdisc and/or DVD copy...
(FYI, BluRay disc(s) are a good deal more durable than the DVD and laserdisc media, including being very scratch resistant.)



And in other news... the (current) newest technology is the 4K BluRay format, with Dolby ATMOS sound. (Was/is the 3-D format/technology a passing fad, now that there are dozens/hundreds of movies available in that format?)
and the music goes round and round, and comes out here...

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