MovieChat Forums > Hawaii (1966) Discussion > Question-Keoke's expectations

Question-Keoke's expectations

posted 10 years ago by Madeline5
8 replies | jump to latest

It is not clear to me what Keoke sought, understood or expected when he passionately asked (pleaded) for the missionaries to come Hawaii in the first place.

Correct me if I am wrong, but he asked for them to convert the Hawaiians from their traditional beliefs and way of life, to a Christian way of life...and asked the missionaries to "save them." Is this correct?

Is that your understanding of what Keoke's expectations were in the beginning? Do you think he understood at that time what their converting meant?

After he arrived home he quickly went back to traditional Hawaiian ways, it was very unclear. And of course, Abner wasn't going to condone any of Keoke's traditional ways, or compromise. Abner was totally rigid.

The only thing I understood, as Keoke's fate played out was that when he fully understood how the uncompromising Abner (who represented the missionaries and Christians) behaved toward him, and would never ordane him into the ministry, and how Abner treated his people and their beliefs with utter contempt, Keoke decided it was more true to self, to stick with the old ways, the old gods.

Abner's rigid fire and brimstone dogma seemed to surprise him. I guess I just didn't get the part of his asking the missionaries to come to Hawaii, and not understanding what they would do when they got there.

It seemed that he was saying one thing when he asked the missionaries to come, but expected something else...that his people be educated, learn new medicine, that the missionaries help his people make adjustments/assimilation to the inevitable colonization taking place, learning modern technology, protecting his people from ruthless land grabbers...but not the dogma of Christian missionary conversion.

[–] bastasch8647 9 years ago

Great question about this major flaw in a very good movie. I can't answer it, except to theorize that K might have been thinking that once the missionaries arrived on the islands, they would have to adapt some of the local customs, not least of all because of their relative isolation. Also K may have had an unrealistic notion of Christianity - an idealized model that certainly did not match up with the strict Calvinism practiced by Abner. Had Abner not had an influential role over K and other islanders, perhaps K would have been a lot happier person. Some of the other missionaries seemed to be much more loose and tolerant than Abner Hale and the story may have been somewhat different if some of those clergy had taken the place of Abner in terms of leadership and control...

[–] ksf-2 8 years ago

well said. K probably didn't realize how many rules the new religion brought with it.
buyer's remorse.

jerusha says this herself to rev hale before she croaks
these are a loving and happy people.
if you want them to live by all these new rules, you must show what it has been so hard for you to give them or me - love and kindness.

ironic that at the very end, even his own church turns on him by deciding its ok to run the factories, own the land, and turn a profit. so much for that vow of poverty they all took.

[–] scarlettsdad 8 years ago

I love this film, but I've also been confused by this. I agree that the other preachers seemed a little more tolerant, and it was Keoke's misfortune to get Rev Hale, who was even too much for his own contemporaries to deal with. Jerusalem reminds Hale when he berates Keoke's for bowing to his mother that, "We agreed as a family that we are all brothers and sisters," to which Hale replies,"That applied only to ordained ministers and their wives," indicating that he pretty much considered everyone to be below them. I suspect Keoke never spent much time with Hale before. Hale was originally assigned to Oahu and not Keoke's island, but that changed when Malama insisted Jerusha stay. How unfortunate that Jerusha was the type of missionary Keoke was probably hoping for, but Hale's mouth came with her.

[–] scarlettsdad 8 years ago

Jerusha, not Jerusalem. Doggone auto fill.

[–] mikeflw1 8 years ago

I was going to mention the last minute switch of the assigned missionaries as part of the problem, but you have that covered.

There is one little(?) detail that probably slipped past everyone in the 'trivial' swap of assignments though... Was it the original minister assigned to the island the one who's wife died, married an island girl, and got voted out of the missionary work, without sustenance? He got a lot of land from the woman he married, and planted sugar didn't he? And the other missionary (the Doctor) that married him to the island girl resigned when the married man was voted out of the church. Those two started their sugar and trading businesses, and expanded to the other islands.

While it was not shown, with that as the example, the governing body over the missionaries would have determined it was all right to go into their self sustaining idea. Ironic!

What would things have been if:
- no island swap,
- the other missionary's wife had not died,
- the two ex-missionaries had not started the plantations and trades,
- the two ex-missionaries had not turned an uncaring eye to the press gangs

NOTE: Possible spoilers...
Do you remember when Keoke was in the open sided classroom, with the chalkboard, teaching the children about the old ways and how their ancestors left the place with the vengeful god? They came to the new place, guided by the shark, to their island, with their loving god.
And then they got Abner, and his vengeful God.

Abner came up on that lesson, and dismissed the children. He also had a strong thing or two to say to Keoke.
Nearly the next sequence begins Keoke's wedding to his sister, since it is clear he will not be allowed to be a minister himself. That drove him back to the old ways, and one of the 23 kinds of adultery, man-with-sister, as required to produce the next Alii Nui from the pure blood line. Of course, Abner tries to stop the wedding, and is removed from it.

One of the things shown in the wedding is the men making the music. Several had no facial hair, and several had beards. This, IMHO, would mean the ones with beards were the product of the local women and sailors who had previously visited the island. That also meant they were fully integrated in the island society, and accepted as equals.
As previously commented, Abner and his equals had few/no plans to be equals to the islanders, even after the islanders were converted from the old ways. That was also demonstrated by the outrage at the missionary (who's wife died) marrying an island girl. I do not recall anyone having asked if she had converted to Jesus... before, or after the marriage.

[–] mikeflw1 8 years ago

ksf-2 wrote

well said. K probably didn't realize how many rules the new religion brought with it.
buyer's remorse.

I doubt it was buyer's remorse as much as youthful confidence and not just knowing everything, but truly believing he knew everything. What would have convinced him of anything else?
In Massachusetts, he was in the process of learning the religion, among people who accepted each other, all followed the same rules, and had fabulous wealth and the wonderful tall ships. Certainly the God of people like that was a powerful God indeed! That was going to be brought to his island, and the others. Right?

Would he have been shown the working class people there, or would he have been the ambassador and son of the Alii Nui to those people? He had already sailed on the tall ship, but was undoubtedly treated as the son of the Alii Nui of all the Hawaiian islands.

I suggest he had absolutely no idea about that religion at first, and what he was learning was being put into his own life experience, from the island with the loving god. That would have been just about the same as trying to teach a blind person about colors, and have them understand! He had no concept.
He had to see it in the framework of his own life to understand. He did know that "too many preacher man on ship" did/would not approve of the islanders that swam out to the ship though, so he had learned some things. Was he exposed to Abner at all? Probably not until they were on the ship. Abner was originally not picked as a missionary. Then, he was not assigned to K's island.

Teenagers are that way. They know everything, and truly believe they know everything, because they do not know how much, or what, they don't know. (Call that 'ignorance is bliss'.) There seemed to be no written language at all, based on Jerusa and Alii Nui talking about whether she should teach her to write in the island language, or English. English was the demand, so Alii Nui could write to the leader of the United States! On top of that, his mother was the Alii Nui, the absolute leader of that island. She made the few rules they lived by.

[–] zappalover 8 years ago

Incest is among the strongest taboos in Western civilization and culture, so strong it probably wasn't a subject of conversation nor regular religious instruction in New England at the time of this story. Incest was highly functional for royalty in Hawaiian culture at the time, and K was hence probably unaware (or at least insufficiently aware) of the supreme and tragic culture clash he unwittingly courted. BTW, Michener's book is a marvel and is well worth its many pages.

Life is a state of mind.

[–] cultfilmfreaksdotcom 7 years ago

YOU are awesome.

There should be a made-up internet term for having a post in mind and then seeing someone already covered it.

I was going to write this exact same thing but you covered it much more clear than I would.

It's just bad writing, I think, on Dalton Trumbo's part. I couldn't get through the rambling 1000 page prologue of the JM novel but I'm sure this didn't happen, in this fashion. Trumbo, by no surprise, obviously had an agenda here. As entertaining as the film is, and one that I watch on a loop (Twilight Time Blu Ray), it's main purpose is to show how narrow-minded Christianity is through the overboard zealot of Sydow's character, and in that, Keoke, the sweet, kind sidekick, pushes or, tests Sydow's (sorry can't remember the name of the man he plays) knee-jerk reactions, and he fails at every turn, closing his mind on all of the traditions that...

Yeah, like you said... It's very weird that Keoke would be the one who started the whole thing and then seemed like he just wanted a free trip back home to his old ways. His rousing speech equalled the fire and brimstone of Sydow and then he turns into a proverbial couch potato, Hawaiian style. And to show how beautiful and open-minded the island religion is to Christianity because of a character to begged it to happen.

I will be hated for this, but I think Dalton Trumbo is vastly overrated. He turned the amazing novel of PAPILLON into a good but very thin action flick, and this... well... I do really dig the movie but its intentions show through, and Keoke is the reason for most of them. He's said to be the greatest scriptwriter ever but I thought SPART (can't spell the rest), with Kirk Douglas, was merely a passable flick that had zero signature elements of its creative director, Stanley Kubrick, and went slowly downhill after the 45 minute mark action sequence.

I'm tired. Can't explain myself. I just don't think ROMAN HOLIDAY is THE GODFATHER and Trumbo, because of his politics, is treated as such. Maybe less bennies in the bathtub would have resulted in countless b-flick Film Noirs instead of.. anyhow... Aloha...

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