MovieChat Forums > Harper (1966) Discussion > The most impossible aspect of this movi...

The most impossible aspect of this movie is.....


That Robert Wagner's character (or any man) would choose Julie Harris over Pamela Tiffin.

"I've got a REAL woman"

"You sent us to guard the wrong man Mr. Chalmers."

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Maybe it's because Julie Harris was a much better actress.

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😊😊

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[deleted]

That Harper would pass up all the chances he had to have it away with the sexy Fay...

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This is getting boring. People keep chanting this. Who knows WHY a person loves somebody? It's not always based on looks, and Tiffin's character comes across as an idiot.

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I am 100 percent sure in REAL LIFE more men fell in love with Tiffin.

Beauty is power.

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No, intelligence is power. And lust is not the same thing as love, of course. Regardless, I'm not sure exactly what you're saying...."real life", as opposed to in this film, where one guy ignored her? (Well, two, including Harper.) Beauty (Wagner) probably liked being worshiped by Julie Harris's character, and Harper has/had a classy wife (Leigh) he couldn't keep up with. Harper would see Tiffin's character as a dime-a-dozen spoiled brat, and a tramp.

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which actress had more suitors in real life? My money is on Tiffen.

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Kind of a pointless observation, and no indication of much of anything. Who knows? Harris has been a first-rate actress all of her life, and with periods on Broadway, Hollywood, etc. I'd bet on the quality of her suitors any day (and probably the quantity).

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I am getting the feeling that I am not talking to a man. Beauty is sought after by men because it conveys health and fertility, thus ensuring healthy offspring.

You cite the talent and social status of Ms. Harris, but ask most men who they would they marry in their prime... Pam Anderson or Meryl Steep, I am guessing most will go with the sexpot.

I am not saying that beauty it is the ONLY quality that a man looks for in a mate, but it is a major one.

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Wagner for whatever reason really was down with Julie. It didn't matter how sensational Tiffin looked. Unlikely but certainly believable.

Kisskiss, Bangbang

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Personally, as I get older, I find myself looking at women closer to my own age. Of course 21 year olds are hot, but for some reason I just don't take them seriously. I think of them more and more as kids. There's really nothing a women young enough to be my daughter has to offer me (except of course, mind-boggling sex) in the long run. Short term fun, maybe, but definitely not relationship material.

I'm pretty sure Harper felt the same way about Miranda. He loved his wife, who was a mature adult, and it was obvious to me Miranda was no comparison.


We got a job.
What kind?
...The Forever Kind.

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In response to tricksoftrade01's opinion about the supposedly superior desirability of Pamela Anderson relative to Meryl Streep, I just want to speak up to represent all the men who'd absolutely have chosen to marry Meryl Streep in her prime, and who wouldn't have wanted anything to do with Pamela Anderson in hers. Meryl, while not a top-tier beauty, has completely acceptable looks as far as I'm concerned, and she's a person of great intellect and talent and accomplishment, the kind of woman I could relate to and trust, the kind whose way of seeing and thinking about the world would be meaningful to me. Also, she has musical talent and a great ear for accents; and she's an atheist, which for me is a massive plus. People who aren't intellectual, who aren't musically talented, who aren't good with accents, and/or who aren't atheists all make me significantly uncomfortable or worse, and in an ideal world I'd prefer to reduce my association with them to the minimum amount necessary. Pamela Anderson would be like an alien to me, and I wouldn't feel I could trust her to behave in what I'd consider a fully rational or ethical way. I don't even find her physically attractive: the fake-blond hair, fake breasts, and fake drawn-on eyebrows just make her look like a clown in my eyes. (Let's not forget that, based on the photographic evidence, Meryl's natural hair color appears to be considerably lighter than Pamela's natural hair color is.) And children? I'm sure I could enjoy the company of children I'd have with Meryl, whereas ones I'd have with Pam might just make my skin crawl (even though of course I'd be too kind and polite to admit it).

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Yes, that's the first question I ask every woman I meet: Are you good with accents? I ONLY date atheists who are good with accents!


We got a job.
What kind?
...The Forever Kind.

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I know it seems funny to you, but yes, in an ideal world I'd prefer to only date atheist women who are good with accents. Anything else feels to me like an at least mild form of mental retardation.

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I've always loved Julie Harris. Never liked Pamela Tiffin.

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People who aren't intellectual, who aren't musically talented, who aren't good with accents, and/or who aren't atheists all make me significantly uncomfortable or worse, and in an ideal world I'd prefer to reduce my association with them to the minimum amount necessary



You sure do come across as a smug pseudo intellectual douchebag. I doubt you have to worry about reducing your association to the minimum with anybody. In fact I can't imagine anyone wanting to be around you after you opened your mouth.

Good luck finding that pompous atheistic musical impresario linguist though. 

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I am getting the feeling that I am not talking to a man. Beauty is sought after by men because it conveys health and fertility, thus ensuring healthy offspring. - tricksoftrade01

I am getting the feeling that you are not an adult.

First off, good for you that you were awake for your Intro to Anthropology and Human Sexuality 101 classes.

However, as Harper takes place in the mid-20th century and not in the Bronze Age, there are a few other items to consider.

One of them is--I have to come back to this: How old are you? Men would want to have sex with either of the Pamelas, Anderson or Tiffin, but to marry them? That's an entirely different kettle of fish. Did Taggert look like the marrying kind? Let alone the fathering kind? Yes, in the Victorian Era you often had to ask for her hand in marriage before you could deflower her in your earnest effort to produce progeny, but in 1960s Southern California, things may have been different, and so was Taggert.

Don't forget that while Miranda may have been luscious and desirable, she was also the boss's daughter, with the corresponding ramifications that could have. And even with the boss out of the picture, there is still Wicked Stepmother in the picture. Moreover, didn't Miranda strike you as being a little high-maintenance? Rich girl, used to getting her way? Taggert could get any woman he wanted; maybe he didn't want to go through all that with a kid who may turn out to be whiny and clingy after they'd done the deed.

And on that note, Harper tried to be hip and to subvert convention. Maybe Betty had the experience he was looking for; maybe she was willing to do things that many other women, particularly a princess like Miranda, would be reluctant to do? After all, she was a junkie, maybe she had to turn tricks, or perform some kind of service, for her fixes? That may have given her the kinds of experience he was looking for.

Finally, and on the note of subverting convention, you can never tell who will be attracted to whom. My sister used to see a good-looking guy with an average-looking woman and, perhaps out of envy, would say, "Why is he with her? He could do better than that!"

The bod has a mind of its own.

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History is hard to know, because of all the hired bull$hit. - Hunter S. Thompson

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Bottom line.

The producer should have picked a more attractive older actress for the role of Betty.

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Bottom line.

The producer should have picked a more attractive older actress for the role of Betty. - tricksoftrade01

That is your bottom like, and it is a trite cliche--movies usually do pick attractive actors for roles. Leaving aside that attractiveness is in the eye of the beholder, and I wouldn't trust you--or me--to be the arbiter of objective attractiveness.

I applaud Harper for taking a different approach. It is what helps to distinguish it from any other standard and predictable detective film. I don't want to see the same story with the same pretty people over and over. That is my bottom line, and this will have to be an agree-to-disagree situation.

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History is hard to know, because of all the hired bull$hit. - Hunter S. Thompson

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I enjoyed the story as well. Julie Harris was 53 years old when this movie was filmed. You just don't see in real life a pretty 25 something playboy falling in love with a 53 year old hag.

Attractiveness is not in the eye of the beholder, but can be computed by math in the symmetry of the face.

I am saying this with all due respect the Ms. Harris's fine acting ability.

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You mean the LATE Ms Harris.


We got a job.
What kind?
...The Forever Kind.

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Julie Harris was 40 when 'Harper'' was released, and, he was NEVER a ''Hag''.

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If that man only cares about looks, then you're absolutely right, OP. I couldn't agree with you more! But you see, Wagner's character wanted true love, and he got that from Julie's character. Pamela's character, as insanely sexy as she was, was just a sex toy.... she wasn't exactly what you call "wife material". Now Julie's character wasn't a righteous person herself, but she genuinely cared for Wagner's character.


Hey there, Johnny Boy, I hope you fry!

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What an insane conversation. Any number of guys who can choose youthful "hotness" over middle aged beauty definitely decide to do so.

But there are plenty of men who don't.

Paul Newman (ol' Harper himself) must've had thousands of hotties throwing themselves at him over his long successful career, but, to my knowledge, he never strayed from Joanne.

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On this very topic, the REAL Robert Wagner had this to say about the "downside" of having sex with gorgeous women(of whom he met many in Hollywood):

"Having sex with a gorgeous Hollywood woman isn't all that great. They know they are gorgeous. They know that you know they are gorgeous. So they barely give you any enthusiasm at all."

Still...I'm sure we'd like to try it.

PS. A biography on Paul Newman indicated that indeed hundreds of hotties chased him all over the place(literally), but "no go." Very loyal to Joanne. Except one time......

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The movie got away with it because it never showed both actors TOGETHER. If it did the 'unreality' of the situation would become evident to viewers.

Coming back to this argument years later, I admit I come off a bit like a douche bag, but hey I was younger and more immature.

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I would do Harris without hesitation. She was hot. I am not kidding.

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