MovieChat Forums > Blow-Up (1967) Discussion > The scene where Redgrave takes off her s...

The scene where Redgrave takes off her shirt


Do you think Antonioni meant for it to be sexy?

It doesn't work for me because she's anguished and at his mercy.

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It was considered terribly daring and shocking at the time (believe it or not). As I understand it, in the uncut version (which I've never seen), her breasts are fully exposed. It was considered totally sensational that Redgrave took on this role.

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That was one of the scenes that made me really angry. The poor girls is perfectly within her rights when she asks him for those photos, and all he does is be a complete jerk to her and abuse the power he has over her. He obviously hates women and sees them merely as things to have a bit of fun with. I have rarely hated a character as much as I hate this guy.

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I have rarely hated a character as much as I hate this guy.


I presume you've never seen Tony Curtis in The Boston Strangler.

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No, I haven't, I'll look into it. Thanks for the tip.

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[deleted]

Tony was depicted as a loving husband and father in TBS - not so with Hemmings in The Blowup.

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How bout the most hated actor who wasn't a murderer?

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Molly, your statement "the poor girls is perfectly within her rights when she asks him for those photos" is categorically incorrect. in the UK (and the US) you can take photographs of anyone who is in a public place. this is the law now as it was in 1960s. photographers are free to use their photographs of people taken in public places as they wish - including for commercial gain.

that being clarified, Jane (Redgrave) has no rights whatsoever in asking for the film. she has no legal right to confront and harass Thomas in the park. Thomas had every right to get rid of her from his studio by giving her a fake roll of film.

the only reason Jane does ask for the photographs is because she was involved in setting up the murder suspect in a secluded locale in the park. both Jane and her gunman accomplice camouflaged in the hedges know Thomas has inadvertently captured the evidence of the murder.

you have misjudged Jane. your sympathy for Jane is a misinterpretation of her character and the part she has played in the murder and the damage control which results. Jane is the one you should hate as an accomplice to a murder. while i will agree Thomas sees women as props in the studio and playthings after work ends i never saw one instance where any of these women were forced into anything.

after all, these are the free-love, birth control pill popping, mod fashion drunk women swingers of the 60s. and this makes Thomas a despicable character? i think your anger with Thomas' character and this film needs to be reevaluated.





"We deal in lead, friend."

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[deleted]

>>the only reason Jane does ask for the photographs is because she was involved in setting up the murder suspect in a secluded locale in the park. both Jane and her gunman accomplice camouflaged in the hedges know Thomas has inadvertently captured the evidence of the murder.

I think you mean murder victim, and although I agree with your assessment of Jane, Thomas does treat the majority of the women in the film with considerable contempt.

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[deleted]

"while i will agree Thomas sees women as props in the studio and playthings after work ends i never saw one instance where any of these women were forced into anything..."

I'm with you for much of your comment, pathfinder.

But your last four sentences maybe deserve re-evaluation in the light of recent "historic" scandals from the BBC (not forgetting, of course, the earlier one relating to Jonathan King).

It is now evident - from the modish misbehaviour of a large number of hip BBC celebrities from around the same time, and on into at least the late seventies - that the 'permissive society' actually permitted a lot of young people to be pressured into a lot of things by people whom they respected.

Here's one way of reading another central scene in the film:

At least one of two fifteen-year olds he had invited back to his studio was forced by him physically - and fairly violently - to strip. The other one arrived to her screams and, in an effort to protect her friend, tried to turn things into a silly game. But the game resulted in both of them being forcefully stripped and both, with naïve complicity, delivering sexual favours in the expectation of a fashion shoot. After which, he declared he was too "whacked" to photograph them and that, in his words, this was "your own faults" - ie., if they'd wanted him to take them seriously as potential "new-face" models, they shouldn't have let him into their nickers.

That might be seen, morally, as a flagrant abuse of his position and, legally (especially if underage), as rape.

Certainly, a lot of vulnerable people's lives were severely damaged by the likes of Jimmy Saville, Stuart Hall and, no doubt, many of their as-yet-unexposed colleagues. Currently, the verdict of our courts is that, regardless of the "free-love, birth control pill popping, mod fashion" swinging atmosphere of the sixties which gave them the sense they could do whatever they wanted with anyone right on into wrinkly middle-age, each of these narcissistic, manipulative males was indeed a despicable character.

Ultimately, what makes this film compelling is that everything can be taken by the viewer in two - or, indeed, more - ways and no event (even a game of tennis at seven in the morning) can be treated as certain fact.

So both Molly and pathfinder are right. You can read Thomas as simply a victim of circumstance, intelligence, and his own opportunism; or you can read him as totally predatory and amoral - determined to get the better of everyone just because he can (he buys the corner shop near Charlton so "no one else can get it"; he snatches the neck of the Yardbirds' guitar when he sees fans are fighting for it, then dumps it like so much junk as soon as he's on the street). Similarly, Jane appears the victim of creepy abuse whilst she is at his mercy, but is clearly ready to deceive him at the drop of a hat; having already led a richer man into a deathtrap. We don't know whether it is she who ordered the murder, who has Thomas followed and eventually turned over (by the end of the film, remember, he has lost almost everything - most of his camera equipment, all his prints, and every roll of exposed film: without these, he'll struggle to grade and scale publishable repros for the book deal - now very likely to be dropped or postponed). But we do know that the very best we can say about Jane is that she is complicit in the use of sex to deceive - and to get away with murder.

Even the fifteen year olds were hoping to flaunt their beauty in order to get closer to power and influence - and that is how they became used by someone who wields it. In Thomas's world (and, apparently, that of Jane's), everyone is continually exploited and exploitable; if you don't use people, they will use you (on impulse, the girl next door uses his angelic face to achieve orgasm - but loses interest when he tries to discuss his crisis as witness to murder). The fashion world of the day did not like being thought of in these terms, but it is certainly what fuels the film world - especially, and not exclusively, in LA.

I'm sure Antonioni wanted us to be more than a little disturbed by the double standards within people - the rapacious, duplicitous behaviour of the most likeable of people; the inherent flaws of the supposedly 'liberationist' mores of the sixties which, paradoxically, served to enslave many innocents and confine spirituality; the damage we do to others - yes, when we are calculatingly dishonest - but also when we remain impulsively true to our own nature.

Most importantly, Antonioni was questioning the assumption that there can ever be an honest account of events. In this film, everyone is lying all the time - sometimes casually, sometimes desperately. (To Thomas's face, Jane explains conspiratorially, "No, we haven't met - you've never seen me." At the Chelsea party, Veruschka reassures him surreally, "I AM in Paris". Could they be hallucinations speaking actual truth? Assuming he was furtively hard at work in the doss-house, then this strung-out celebrity has barely closed his eyes in at least thirty four hours - very probably two full days.) Thomas's distorted blow-ups pour scorn on the notion that a 'camera cannot lie'; his work evidently subverts ideals like 'naturalism,' photographic realism, or honest photo-journalism; and Thomas is surely left doubting whether he can trust memory - even the perceptions arising from his own senses.

So, for Antonioni, EVERY event is open to interpretation - to re-evaluation. Without any surviving evidence, the murder in the park might just be the remains of a colourful and vivid dream the morning after too many drugs in Chelsea.

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A very balanced assessment, MC66. But wasn’t Jane ready to give Thomas as much sex as it needed to get the film from him, starting with the display of her breasts? And if he was such a randy exploiter of women, why didn’t he take the gift before getting rid of her with the false film?

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Charlotte,

I also liked much of what MC66 said, but your point makes it clear that MC's explanation does not explain everything. I have posted on this film, which remains a source of great fascination to me, over the previous years of my posting here, but I see on this visit that it remains a subject of great debate.

Since my previous visit to this film's boards I have seen the four great Antonioni films of the early sixties that preceded this, his first foray into an English language film. Those four are the ones he did with his muse Monica Vitti. On the face of it I would not try to oversell the connection of Blowup to them, as those four have a certain unifying approach, using an increasingly direct examination of existential alienation that is at least somewhat more subtle in Blowup. And less obvious. (and not the least done without Monica, but I digress.) But it would be a mistake to ignore the context of Antonioni's own work, I think.

I love all four of those films, but perhaps L'Eclisse, also my favorite of them, is most helpful in providing context for Blowup. Please excuse what will here amount to a rather shorthand take on what that film meant and stood for. But L'Eclisse was a major film for that period, quite influential, and within that period and since has been compared to films by Ingmar Bergman, another giant of the time, and both of whom can generally be seen as making films with an overtly Existentialist perspective. But there were differences.

Particularly in L'Eclisse we see existential alienation viewed as virtually an inevitable result of the way man lives in post industrial society. While Antonioni I think is hardly politically radical, let alone Marxist, he did have an awareness of the notions Marxists posited to explain their own take on the nature of alienation. And we can see that in L'Eclisse, the later Red Desert, and in Blowup as well. And by that I mean what in general terms is an alienation based on an economic analysis, by which is meant, if one combines that analysis with a more Existentialist one, that our search for meaning is greatly hindered, even outright thwarted, by the nature of man's relation to the world in economic and social terms.

In Blowup this thwarting arises in Thomas's life in a rather I think obvious way. Thomas has a talent, and we see when he goes over the book project and the pictures he took that he genuinely enjoys and is excited by his work. But at least so far that work is not paying his rather large bills, and may not even were he to be "successful" with it. (I here mean how likely is it that such an endeavor would if he so chose allow him to leave behind the fashion photography world.) Instead he must literally move directly from having spent all night in the flop house, working on his project, to his day job. Which on some level, concededly, he seems to enjoy, up to a point, since he's good at it. But is that enough? I think clearly not, and as the day moves from his organizational efforts, talking on the CB to his secretary, to the nitty gritty of first the Verushcka set and then with Peggy Moffit, Jill Kennington and the other uncredited models, his increasing alienation is obvious.

He searches for some essence in his directions first to Veruschka, with his directions and encouragement, finally getting satisfactory results, he thinks. But how does that session end? With both suddenly turning away, not only from each other but without satisfaction at completing their work. The analogy to an unsatisfactory sexual encounter cannot be missed. Then Thomas is immediately onto the even more alienating and eventually fruitless scene with the multiple models. Nothing seems to work, and they seem as bored and alienated as he is. (Of course this gives rise to frustration and angry behavior, but I fail to see this as primarily or even significantly about an expression of sexism.)

This sequence of events, echoed and reinforced later, sets up the fundamental source of Thomas's alienation. As fashion photographer, fashion itself rather obviously being to a large extent about illusion and even decption, he feels he must take his talent and use it not in a way that he thinks is expressive of his art, but in order to meet the demands of commercialism and economics.

Eventually he ends up in the park. Here at first he seems free of the commercial demands of his fashion photography job. He is re-energized. Freed from alienation. He even soon thinks he can use these pictures in his book, as he later tells Ron. The events and pictures in the park seem to connect him to his search for meaning, and here I can't miss also thinking may make his book more successful. Is this the beginning of some way out of his dilemma?

Blowup is also of course very much about the distinction and relation between perception and reality, another subject very much a concern to Existentialism, and evident in Antonioni's earlier work, perhaps most overtly in L'Avventura. Given this distinction, what does Thomas soon "find out" about the "true" nature of what he was photographing? He thinks there is beauty in his pictures of Jane in the field, the frisson between her and the man, all in the Arcadian version of Nature that is the English park. But of course he soon finds out, not concidentally through the technological process of the blowup, that what he thought was there in fact turns out to be something different.

And of course not just different, but ugly. And while the backstory of Jane and the apparent murder victim is not dealt with in great detail,we get enough of it to know there was some motive for his death, and in the nature of things it was economic in some large measure.

It turns out that Thomas has found something very much other than freedom and expression of his art, something that he thought would nicely go into his book project, in the park. Finding only more alienation, not coincidentally the more and more he uses his own talent to blowup his prints, he simultaneously confronts the shortcomings of perception and his own art's loose connection to truth and meaning.

Before the blowup scenes, he of course encounters Jane in his studios. I have not forgotten that is the OP's subject here! And of course it is not merely the fact that Thomas took some pictures in a park - Jane's own involvement in the unfolding scene and story in effect makes her the personafication of the distance between perception and reality. And also simultaneously showing the true distance between some authentic human connection, and the demands the contemporary world places on her and him.

All this is present in their encounter. His reason for not wanting to give her the film is partly because he thinks they are good pictures. He also sees an economic value in them. And of course she sees "economic" value (in a general sense) in getting them back.

The fashion world also intrudes in their encounter. On top of everything else, Thomas reverts to his fashion photographer role - why Jane would make a great model! This angle in turn affects, or rather infects, what might otherwise be a genuine human connection between them. Is there any real attraction between them, or is it too much colored by the games and inauthenticity required, certainly of Jane, in this encounter? Still, not understanding what really has brought Jane to him, what she really is up to, Thomas seems to have some naive hope of a real connection with her, even if he uses the incentive of perhaps doing modeling work.

Still, we should not rule out what a visceral reading of this scene also tells us, which is on a surface level, the two look good together, and make a plausible possible couple. Vanessa Redgrave is stunningly beautiful in this scene, of course. That is real enough, is it not? Yet we all, as htis thread and others on this film make abundantly clear, know that is hardly all that is involved. Why is that the case?

I suggest the reason this being Antonioni is clear enough. The social economy within which we live, modern society, has thwarted the search for meaning, and even distorts awareness, truth and the possibility of authentic human connection.

All these themes are also reflected throughout the film. This post is long enough so I will not go through the other scenes and characters here. But I think if one accepts the goal Antonioni had in doing this film, it must be understood as a brilliant and effective enterprise in that regard.

Just when Thomas seems free and in his art, he in fact is set down a path of lies, murder, confusion, and evil. He has now entered a world of not only doubting his search for meaning, but also of his own ability to understand what he thinks he understands. The film ends with confirmation of this confusion (I am referring to the mimes), which to some extent the realization of which presents at least the hope for a better undrestanding of the true relation we have to perception and society.

I think that's what it is about.

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I wanted to add a clarification to the discussion of the scene in Thomas's apartment/studio with Jane.

I did not mean to imply that Thomas raised the notion of Jane doing modelling out of the blue as it were, or as some obvious way in which political economy infects human relationships. As the scene unfolds, we can perhaps choose to see Thomas as merely stating what was obvious to him when he first photographed her in the park - she looks good on film. But there is also an aspect of flirtation in what he says and does, and I think Jane gives a flitting sense of wonder, of being flattered, that what he said might be true. And of course it DOES lead to him talking her out of her shirt, doesn't it?

But it is also true that she has by then demanded he give her the film back, and he must be wondering at how adamant she is about it. He knows he has broken into her privacy, and that at least one other person is involved. Can he buy her off the trail as it were with some vague promise of modelling, or even modeling along with some equally vague prospect of a romantic, sexual relationship?

For her part, she is smart enough to know she is probably best served getting him to put his guard down. It does not help her for her to be only concerned about the return of the film. In the context of the scene it would have risked her looking hysterical, calling attention to her motive in seeking the film's return. Exactly why does she care quite so much about it?

So she backs off.

Of course we later learn she has good reason to be adamant, but also even better reason to hide from Thomas what she is really there for, which is to hide a murder. And her involvement in it.

So she takes her shirt off. Boy, we men are so easily amused! Well, not easily, since after all she looks great, but the point remains.

Seeing this scene as Thomas as some virtual sexual predator is in short ridiculous.

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although no one else has posted to this thread since my two previous posts, I did circle back here and find that on at least one level those two posts did not describe their context well enough.

In speaking about the economic angle present in Blowup, and by reference also to L'eclisse, I did not mean to suggest that is the only way, or even the best way, to understand those films and Antonioni more generally. I did and do think such perspective helps us understand the aspects I described, specifically the impact of economy on Thomas's relation to his work, and how the motives of Thomas and Jane, with economic concerns so significant in regard to those motives, are played out during the course of their interaction.

But I did not mean to suggest that such a framework is the best way to understand Blowup, and certainly not L'eclisse, as a whole. For even if one accepts or assumes the notion that Antonioni is concerned about the way man's relation to post-industrial society has an impact on his way of being with other people, he remains primarily concerned with the more general existential concerns than with the source of that impact. His is an examination of how people live, not the reasons for or the way how that economic impact came about.

For example take the scene with the five models. Yes, we all understand why they are there, and how this particular job is not Thomas's favorite, to say the least. But it is certainly in my opinion more significant how the scene fits into the overall themes of the film. How the posings of the models reinforces the image of them as manequins, objects rather than people, in turn referring back to the first images of the group of mimes. Manequins may not "equal" mimes, but they are both speechless, made up, attempting to appear (and be) different than "real" people, and certainly different than who each of them "really" are (and were before they put on their make up and behaved as they did.

This in turn involves existential awareness and concern with regard to the issues of identity, personas, and authenticity in connection with one's way of being.

Before leaving off this clarification I want to add that Blowup is more plot driven than L'eclisse, and the latter is arguably more of a thematic rather than conventional exercise. And, the themes are not limited to man's economic relation to the world (although clearly that relation runs throughout L'eclisse as well as Blowup). Carry on.

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Where did you get the notion that the wannabe models were "fifteen-year old"?

I don't recall it was said at any point in the movie, and the actresses were 20 and 22 in 1966.

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I would say the actresses were portrayed more or less exactly what their real ages were. I didn't get any sense they were 15. I'd also guess they more or less expected that there would be some kind of quid pro quo with this photographer.

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you know while watching that part in the park I thought to myself "a photographer found a way to photograph people without their permission" in a funny way. yeah, you're right the paparazzi has been taking photos of stars out in public for so many years now and this is legal. though I don't think they can take photos of celebrities when they are in their homes.

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That's also Antonioni's point.

"You couldn't be much further from the truth" - several

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you're wrong about that. it doesn't say anything about this scene having different versions in the alternative versions section of it's page on here.

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Are you aware that you did not answer the question posed?

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it doesn't really work for me because it doesn't show enough. you never see either of her full boobs and that is the worst sin this film committed. it was beyond laborious and excruciating to watch. she shouldn't of been allowed to act in anything after she made this film and the director shouldn't of been allowed to make any more movies after he directed this film.

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[deleted]

Who cares what Antonioni meant? The only thing that's important is what it meant to you.

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[deleted]

I was disappointed she didn't show the goods. She was so beautiful in a MILF way.

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