MovieChat Forums > Au hasard Balthazar (1966) Discussion > I'm so sorry I watched this - SPOILER

I'm so sorry I watched this - SPOILER


Not because it's a bad film. It is not. But to go thru all that suffering to poor Balthazaar only to see him shot and collapse on a hillside and die? I have to say I had mixed emotions at the end: anger and sadness.

I suppose the point of the film is that if you do not act, if you remain passive, bad things will happen to you. The most agressive character, the evil boyfriend, remained untouched at the end. Everyone else, the Dad, Marie, the drunk, even Balthazaar had endured cruelty. One interesting thing I thought was why did the property owners allow the boyfriend to keep drifting onto the property? They never addressed it. Whenever he came into the yard, bad things happen. When the donkey started braying at the end when he saw the gang coming for him, I pretty much knew what would happen at the end.

I am sad and depressed after seeing this. What a bleak picture of life Bresson painted. I wanted it explained, so I watched some old, blabbering critic speak in circles and vaguely point out why the film was so great. That also was a disappointment.

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I agree with you. It's almost as if the consensus among critics is that this is a profoundly deep and meaningful movie and yet when they go to explain why you just get a whole lot of blabber. I thought it was different and thought provoking, but I'm not ready to find all of these hidden meanings that were probably never intended by anyone involved with the film.

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Read Paul Schrader's "Transcendental Style in Film: Ozu, Bresson, and Dreyer." He offers the best possible deconstruction analysis available for Bresson's style of "spiritual" filmmaking.

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I think Schrader's book is a good try, but he still falls into the trap of relying on other art forms to explain the worth of cinema. To me this doesn't make sense, I don't need to know about Byzantine architecture in order to understand that Bresson is one of the best directors ever.

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I agree mostly with what you say, although I'd say Schrader doesn't rely on comparison with other artwork to *make* his argument as much as he does to *enforce* it. The parallels aren't always perfect and, as you say, they are not NECESSARY to recognize Bresson, Ozu, and Dreyer's greatness, but I do think they are applicable when taken with an unbiased opinion.

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Transcendental
OR
Tranfigurational?


Ticks Ticks thousands of ticks, and not one blessed TOCK among them!

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Haha thanks for the warning. I've decided not to watch this movie.

I had been willing to give it a shot, but then my eyes happened upon the nice SPOILER, courtesy of imdb. It's on the main page, halfway down, on the highlighted goofs section. Kinda hard to miss.

Anyway, next I read a few comments. Check out the one by Ross Wilson. I think he touches on the same sentiment you have, and I agree wholeheartedly. He says, "I can only imagine the people who love this film, are also the same people who think pictures of poor people are art, are naturally self pitying, and appreciate obvious painful illustrations of life." (The review should be at/near the top of this page...)
http://imdb.com/title/tt0060138/usercomments?filter=hate

Lastly, I saw your title and decided to read your post. Ayep... this sounds like just the sort of movie I try to avoid: a bleak picture of "life sucks and then you die". Coupled with the "suffering is good for the soul" quasi-religious propeganda, this is a message that has no value to me. I find it rather oversimplified, puerile and self-pitying. I can't believe the director had to subject a poor donkey to all of that torture just for the sake of a rather pointless message. (As someone has pointed out, there isn't any "animals were not harmed" disclaimer at the end, so we can assume the worst.)

P.S. This rant is not intended to criticize the film artistically (obviously I can't, because I haven't even watched it). I'm simply commenting on the theme itself, as indicated by some of the posts I've read. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

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*****WARNING: POSSIBLE SPOILERS BELOW*****

Balthazar is not a metaphor for sin, he's not a metaphor for Christ, he's not a metaphor for anything. He's a donkey.

He's had a cruel life, and eventually ends up getting shot on a hillside. He then lay down among a pack of sheep. And dies. A fitting death for him, I'd say: he doesn't end his life alone as he has been most of his life, but together. With other animals.

Maybe the reason so many critics find it hard to describe why this specific movie is so great is because... It's greatness is hard to describe.

But just as backing up your opinion about this film if you're a supporter of it is difficult to do, it's apparently just as difficult for detractors to describe what exactly they don't like about it. I've yet to read a single argument which could result in me changing my mind about this film...

Anyway, the film's message definitely is not "life sucks and then you die", nor is it "suffering is good for the soul". It doesn't have a "message" at all, as such. The film's about a donkey, and it's damn fu*cking good.

Oh, and as a sidenote, I think it's incredible insepid of you (rooprect) to decide you're not gonna watch the film... and then go on to criticize it - even if it's not "artistically". Just watch it and make up your own mind.

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The film's about a donkey, and it's damn fu*cking good.

lol I think you've proven the original poster's point: no one can offer an intelligent argument as to why it's so "damn fu*cking good".

Even though art is totally subjective, emotional and visceral, there must exist a common intelligible language by which we can objectively discuss its merits.

So you missed my entire point. To me, the theme itself is vapid, hackneyed and trite. Again, if I'm wrong PLEASE ENLIGHTEN ME by explaining any intricacies, complexities, philosophies or the novelty of the theme. If the theme is not "life sucks and then you die", then what is it? (Note: "It's about a donkey" is hardly any better.) Anything intelligent will do. I'm not being sarcastic either; if anyone can discuss the film's thematic points of merit, then I will retract my stance. But as it stands you're merely hammering home the original poster's point:

I wanted it explained, so I watched some old, blabbering critic speak in circles and vaguely point out why the film was so great. That also was a disappointment.


As for changing your mind about the film... hey that's not my intent. If you like it, then more power to you.

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Just one question: have you still not seen the film? If not, I'd like to reserve this discussion 'til after you've actually watched it.

Anyway, here goes: the film is just about a donkey, just as, say, Breaking the Waves (another fave of mine, and one which is similar to Au hasard Balthazar in more than one way) is just about a woman. What's important about both films, though, is how they're capable of making us (me, anyway) feel emotionally attached to, and interested in, the protagonists of the stories they're telling while I'm watching them (the protagonist of Au hasard Balthazar being a donkey, nonetheless) - the ending of both movies made me feel incredibly sad.

But, as you yourself pointed out, emotional attachment is entirely subjective, and if you really want me to speak in "a common intelligible language by which we can objectively discuss its merits," then let me say this: I thought that both the directing, camerawork and editing was absolutely phenomenal in Au hasard Balthazar (I'm not gonna comment on the acting, as it's pretty much always Bresson's intention to avoid anything that would constitute an actual "performance" from any of his actors).

So, I thought the story was great, I thought the concept was original (how many times do you really see a film evolving entirely around the life of a donkey - or any animal, for that sake?), I thought the technical aspects (directing, camerawork, etc.) were as good as they get, and, furthermore, the film moved me on a personal level; I felt emotionally involved. And if those things are not the marks of a great film, I don't know what is.

Now this is just my personal opinion about this film, and you can take it or leave it as you wish.

Ps. I didn't expect to get any real response, yet one in such short notice, seeing as these boards are pretty deserted, so cheers for that.

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Ps. I didn't expect to get any real response, yet one in such short notice, seeing as these boards are pretty deserted, so cheers for that.

Haha, well for some reason I've never been so interested in discussing a movie that I probably will never see ...and it's a lazy Sunday, so why not?

Yep, I still haven't seen the film, but I couldn't resist reading your commentary anyway. Ok definitely I can grasp the points you're making. I can totally relate to what you said:
What's important about both films, though, is how they're capable of making us feel emotionally attached to, and interested in, the protagonists of the stories they're telling.


Agreed. To me, that alone makes a great movie.

But the one thing that's preventing me from watching this film is the warning of previous posters that the central theme is hopelessly depressing and nihilistic. To me, that can kill a great movie. Don't get me wrong, most of my favourite movies have tragic endings (films by Werner Herzog, Takeshi Kitano and Yimou Zhang come to mind). But what I find redeeming about those films is that the protagonists fight back against their inevitable fates. That's what makes it interesting.

But in this case, the donkey cannot fight back. So it seems to me that the story is painfully one-sided. Much like a slaughterhouse video, we're inundated with images of how cruel human beings can be to fellow creatures. Doesn't that theme hit too close to home? I mean, don't we see that every day on Fox News?

Of course in all fairness, I realize that this movie came way before Fox News, so that's not a good comparison. But my gut reaction is the same. I dunno... it's hard (but fun) to discuss a movie I've never seen.

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Well, I think the only thing left for me to say is that I'd definitely recommend you to give it a watch - it's one of the best films I've ever seen.

And even if you don't like it... well, it'll at least make it a little easier for us both to discuss it.

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so, you wouldn't watch a nihilistic movie because you're not a nihilist?

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Hm, I had to think about that for a while. No, I don't think that's the case. Two of my favourite films are Werckmeister Harmoniak (Bela Tarr) and Vivre sa vie (Godard) which are both verrrrry nihilistic. But the difference is that the protagonists in WH and VSV fight back against their fate, and that's what makes the story interesting. That's what makes the theme dynamic and complex.

According to the original poster (and other comments on imdb), that dynamic is lacking here, because the donkey merely suffers and endures. It sounds like a one-way trip to hell with no hope of reprieve. That goes beyond nihilistic... it sounds downright masochistic to me! That's why I think I'll pass (for now, at least ...after hearing what Number_One had to say, I gotta admit my curiosity may get the better of me).

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Oh boo hoo. Who cares about a stupid donkey anyway? Serious.

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akakabooto, congratulations on making the first idiotic post in this entire thread. If you can't discuss things like an adult, howzabout going back to the playground? The grownups are talking.

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Haha, I've discussed with "grownups" before, rooprect. Or atleast snobs that think they are grown up and cool to like films like this.
"howzabout" you starting to talk like a grown up, and maybe I will?

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Oh go have a good cry. Give uncle rooprect a hug & let the tears roll down those chubby cheeks.

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How many grown ups use the word: lol, anyway, rooprect? Mature.

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[deleted]

"Who cares about a stupid donkey anyway?"

Not me - I don't care about a stupid ass, so go away.

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Haha. You care about a donkey? The thought is good. But it is terrible as a film. Sure, it has some nice cinematography and an even pace and all that.
But everything else is so bad. The story is good, but it could have been better.
I'd give it 6/10 though.. Maybe. If I'm happy. But this films hasn't really anything new to say.. People are bad. Yes. We know. Get over it.

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Real life is not always like that. There are many instances where a character (person/animal) cannot fight back against the harsh realities of life. They can't fight for freedom/comfort and are relegated to a game of survival. When one takes on to the game of survival for too long, he/she eventually loses the purpose and accepts what was bestowed upon him/her.

I do appreciate how you've taken it upon yourself and your thoughts for your impression on what the film could be, rather than on the film itself.

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I just watched it and I have to say I fall into the "did not like it at all" camp. Call me a luddite if you will but it just didn't engage me at all. The acting, editing and dialog were lifeless, stilted, choppy and random (to me).

Below is an excerpt from Ebert's review which is one the reasons I didn't get pulled into the film (although it was intentional on Bresson's part, it is this "zombie-fication" of the actors which made the film so lifeless IMO)

"Bresson's most intriguing limitation is to forbid his actors to act. He was known to shoot the same shot 10, 20, even 50 times, until all "acting" was drained from it, and the actors were simply performing the physical actions and speaking the words. There was no room in his cinema for De Niro or Penn. It might seem that the result would be a movie filled with zombies, but quite the contrary: By simplifying performance to the action and the word without permitting inflection or style, Bresson achieves a kind of purity that makes his movies remarkably emotional. The actors portray lives without informing us how to feel about them; forced to decide for ourselves how to feel, forced to empathize, we often have stronger feelings than if the actors were feeling them for us."

I can't and won't say the film "sucked" because there are too many people who "see" something in it that I don't. It just wasn't for me.

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Dear Mr. "Life sucks and then you die",

You should watch "Matrix", you seem like a PERFECT candidate.

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You are pretentious.

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I agree with the other poster. How dare you criticize a film that you refuse to watch. You are wrong and shallow and the reason that bad exists. As you judge with no reason.

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You are wrong and shallow and the reason that bad exists. As you judge with no reason.


Either you're an ironic mastermind, or a hypocritical idiot. But I won't judge you. ;)

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I personally believe this film is NOT necessarily about a donkey. I think Bresson's just trying to cloud our vision as to what is really going on and what is wrong with the world. We take such care in seeing that Balthazar is o.k. and when he finally dies an absurd death we all complain about how nihilistic it is, how cruel. But what about Marie??? No one even cares to venture a guess as to where she went. "She's gone." Where??? Why??? WTF??? It's a strange thing to personify an animal and dehumanize a person. As I saw my fiance shed some tears for the life of the donkey, I consoled her, then intoned, "Don't forget about Marie." Pure, unadulterated genius on Bresson's part.

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We don't care about Marie. She acts likes she's retarded. Bresson doesn't seem to care either. Does he want us to hate Marie? I do, when she is with that guy who is cruel to Balthazar. Why should I give a damn about Marie. That spoiled little brat..

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i don't want to be condescending "you don't get it" people but i have to disagree with a previous poster. a film does not absolutely need a definate theme or message that can be discussed in a clear way. the problem with this is that a lot of *beep* films get in that door when you open it. this is not one of them. it's a good sad film about a donkey.

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That's right. It's a film about a donkey. Why do we care about a donkey?
Seriously.

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I haven't really liked any of the Bresson films that I've seen with the exception of this. I knew nothing about this movie when I sat down to watch it other than someone recommended it to me claiming it was the best film of the 1960's. I don't think it's the best film of the decade, but it is terrific.

I too hate the whole artsy self-indulgent crap that many directors spew out. Sometimes I feel like critics don't understand certain films and since they don't understand it, hey! it must be great! Or they dissect the film so much to such an absurd conclusion that it's useless to argue with idiocy.

I picked up on the metaphors for Christ - I think this film probably does have a lot to say, although I'm not sure what at times. I'm not claiming that it actually does have a bunch of hidden meanings, it just seems like there's more to it; that makes me want to give it a second viewing. All I know is that it held my attention, made me think at times, and at the end of the film I got pretty choked up.

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[deleted]

The film is a slap on faces of people like you. You attach a materialistic/spiritual value to someone (include any life here) and it becomes valuable to you, if not it means nothing to you. Some people take this to the other end and squeeze endlessly from the world's resources, crush their competitors for the same idea you've brought about. Why do we care for someone/something? Certainly no one cares about anything more than their self? To what extent can one go to satisfy the self? But the world is not about you. That someone is as important to the world (nature) as you are. No more. No less.

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Interesting take. Very evident, after revealed. Another thing this movie is doing is showing us the way we view movies and how our own biases impact our expierience. The film is not very deep at all, however when we view it it becomes one of the deepest pieces of art of modern times.

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In my opinion, the reason for Au hasard balthazar's extremely high regard among critics is that it is one of the most layered and most interesting movies to dissect.

On a sheer visceral and strictly emotional level it is extraordinary and does new things by giving us a true bond with a donkey. This in itself is a marvel.

Then, I would agree with another previous poster in saying that Bresson somehow humanizes the animal and dehumanizes the person. But I would disagree that Marie is an unsympathetic character. She, like Balthazar, is doomed to be a beast of burden. Marie's main downfall is that she SHOULD be able to stop herself from being hurt. But she explains that she feels as though she can't detach herself from Gerard, and this shows how we sometimes sacrifice our free will to/for certain things. I don't think that Bresson "forgets" about Marie because he gives her her best possible ending. In reality, Marie's fate is much more hopeful than it could have been. She finally does wise up and runs away. If Bresson had shown us more of her, we might have seen her repeat her mistakes, but by ending her story with a triumph, it actually ends Marie on a high note.

Then, there is also the quality of allegory, vs. criticism on the Christian faith.
While Balthazar serves as an almost exact allegorical replica of Jesus Christ, the sheer fact that Balthazar is a donkey, along with the hypocrisy of supposed Christian, Gerard, and the futitlity of Marie's mother's prayers all seem a criticism of Christinaity.

Then, beyond these elements, this film can have two very polarized effects but one particular one that makes many people fall in love. That is that if one looks at it in the proper way, it is very life-affirming and uplifting. If one wants evidence for this point-of-view, merely look at the topic below this "Why People Love This Movie".

The combination of all these factors and the debatability and questions of analyses all result in a magnificent film that people either form a deep connection with or are turned off by.

Hope that was of some help.

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Critics often do talk in circles, it's an occupational hazard -- that's because we're usually trying not to give too much away, preferring to let the movie work its own magic. (For the past 25 years, I've been a film critic.)

Since you went right for the jugular and have discussed the ending, there's no reason to be coy. I'll tell you as bluntly as I can what I love about the film:

1) Balthazar's life is represented complete, from cradle to grave. We don't see his birth, but we see his baptism, at the fade in -- enacted on him by children who are, for the moment, as innocent as he. They quickly lose their innocence, in the sense that the more grownup humans he meets from here on are corrupt and often cruel, yet Balthazar, being an animal, keeps his innate purity.

2) He is neither a saint or a genius (as he is referred to by two people, at different times), he is simply true to his nature.

3) Bad things do not happen to him because he is too accepting. Being himself, which is to say without inner conflict (however painfully bewildered he becomes at his constant mistreatment) he can be no other way than simply, infinitely patient, uncomplaining, unremembering.

4) However haphazardly it comes to him, his "baptism" implies that, like ALL animals, but more visibly in his case, he is blessed by God. That sheep gather about him, like living woollen comforters, as he softly kneels and dies is confirmation that his whole life has been blessed, despite its hardships, that a just God is blessing his death as explicitly, and lovingly, as his birth.

5) That you're angry and depressed is only natural -- it's your own far-off death that Balthazar's destruction is haunting you with. As well it should. Bresson is calling upon all of us to imagine our deaths. Not that we'll all be winged by some stray bullet, fired by smugglers on some mountainside -- but death, when it comes for each of us, will inevitably feel just as senseless, from the inside -- at first. Perhaps some grace (comparable to those sheep) will surprise each of us -- or not -- in ways ideally suited for our particular souls. That's the hope Bresson is expressing.

You're not persuaded, one can gather from what you've written -- but you're living it and feeling the anguish out of which the movie has arisen, and Bresson could have asked for no more profoundly honest a response.

-- F.X. FEENEY

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This is probably the best interpretation of Balthazar i've heard so far. if i had to quibble, i'd say that your #2 is obvious and lacks any real meaning, since if Balthazar acted against his nature we'd be talking about something like Mr. Ed here. something completely out of place. however i think you were attempting to refer to the much-stated grace of being "true-to-oneself," a cloying term i know, but a difficult one to delineate...

-Anthony

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My favorite parts of the movie are when Balthazar has moments of joy. They are few and far between, but when he has his moments where he feels happy, you can almost see it in the donkey's face, and atleast for me, I feel a great sense of happiness for him. The best example of this is when he is "solving" the math problems in the circus, and after he is done with the first one, the audience applauds him. The camera for a breif moment focuses on him, and you see a look of pride and happiness dawn on him as he recognizes the positive feedback he is getting from the crowd, something he has not felt since Marie used to love him.

For me, these moments of happiness, and the silence at the end before his death, are the most profound and beautiful moments in the film. It is during these moments that Balthazar feels the inner peace that we all long to feel in life.

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Thank God for your post Feeney. I don't know why I ever read these boards as they don't seem particularly conducive to good discussion, but sometimes a post (like yours) shines some light in the darkness. To all you people complaining about this movie being "just about a donkey", Bresson alludes to so much more every step of the way (especially in the beautiful, hopeful, and haunting final scene). I really think that you just aren't trying to be engaged as a viewer, and you certainly aren't attempting to view this film on it's own terms (or even think about what those terms might be). That's fine, but don't blame it on the movie.

Bresson was a Catholic with Jansenist tendencies. As much as he complained about being labeled as a Jansenist filmmaker, acquainting yourself with his beliefs will shed a lot of light on what his films are about. You can't seriously think for a second that he would make a movie "just about a donkey".

Sorry to sound like a pompous ass but it's really too much sometimes.

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To the folks who say they avoid the film because of its tragic content or ending - I shudder to think of how you would react to (live plays now) Oedipus Rex, Othello, Hamlet or King Lear. (And if you say what's so great about Shakespeare, then I feel as sorry for you as I do for a blind person who cannot appreciate a sunset or a deaf person who cannot appreciate a symphony or any othe rpiece of music.) Thirty-three years after I first saw this film in college, it still resonates, but really, if people decide that because a story - novel - play - film - whatever - has a sad ending it is valueless, I suppose that is only their loss.

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[deleted]

You totally missed the point, montague. It's not the tragic ending that we find banal; it's the constant, unremitting, predictable descent without any dynamics. I love Sophocles; I love Marlowe; I love every Shakespearian tragedy ever written. It's because these tragedies were penned by the masters who knew that dynamics are the key to good storytelling. But according to all the comments I've read (AND ONCE AGAIN: If I've been misled, please speak up), Au Hazard Balthazar is just a one-way ticket to gloomsville. There is an art to telling a tragedy. You must fool your audience up until the last moment, otherwise it's dull and predictable. Read Macbeth.

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[deleted]

[deleted]

I can tell you that debating and discussing movies like this will never suddenly become one-sided. Why beat your heads against the proverbial wall? Just accept the fact that this guy likes this and that girl likes that. The donkey did his thing. Now what are you going to do? It really does sound like everyone (including myself) has too much time on their hands instead of debating real topics like how do we progress faster in life before life does end! Think about what really matters and compare that to a film that might or might not be trying to say something. In the end you realise, "Yeah, maybe I just need to move on and find a job, or a partner, or a life even if debating is fun. Leave us alone." Well if that's true then my reply should come at no surprise.

One thing I must say, Feeney was not the critic he claimed to be. Just by reading the response you can tell it's not very well formulated. And I don't claim to be any film critic but I could have come up with something heavier than that if this entire sha-bang meant enough for me to try and rationalize life or the lack there of.

Moving on.

I suggest you do the same.

I know the donk did.

Go donk.

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It seems to me a parable, and as such it is quite effective from the sounds of it.

Of course when you are familiar with the New Testament you will know this as old hat, and new challenges may claim your attention. Some people may obsess over the new testament, others may revile it and prefer their own of the main religions...
Others may recognize it and go back with the things we have learned since then.

Ticks Ticks thousands of ticks, and not one blessed TOCK among them!

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> I am sad and depressed after seeing this. What a bleak picture of life Bresson painted. I wanted it explained, so I watched some old, blabbering critic speak in circles and vaguely point out why the film was so great. That also was a disappointment.

Must all great films be uplifting and/or escapist in nature? I really don't get the drift of your argument. I understand all these "happy endings" occur in Hollywood, but you are watching European cinema and consider Bergman, who is (IMHO) far more pessimistic and bleak than Bresson is. At least, in Bresson, there is still God to rely on.

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> the constant, unremitting, predictable descent without any dynamics

this sounds extremely vague. King Lear (and its cinematic counterpart, Ran) is also extremely pessimistic - the suffering seems relentless and good people die in the end. But it's still a great drama.

The only difference is that Au Hasard is about a donkey and some people.
Obviously being a donkey you cannot articulate your suffering...

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The film is so great because, using a very simple example, is able to show how the world around us works. That is not nihilistic or sappy or self-pitying, but rather realistic. People are exploited all over the world, they are while I type this, and the film is a gorgeous meditation on this theme.

And yes, it is close to films of Kitano, Bunuel or Bergman.
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Who wants explanation? Robert Bresson is one of those, who never underestimated his audience. So many great ones do, all the time. Bresson never did. He expects his audience to be smart, focused and mature. He never explains and all the twists and turning points in Balthazar are showed through symbolism and metaphores. A masterpiece. It is a very dark picture of life and the world. But what a soulful and beautiful picture it is.

"I never said all actors are cattle; what I said was all actors should be treated like cattle"

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