This was not the first show about an independent woman

Nick at Nite showed the Ann Sothern shows around 1985-87. As I remember, in one show she was the assistant manager of a hotel in NY and the other, obviously, a secretary. While these women wanted male companionship--they were okay on their own and not willing to settle for just anyone.
The Eve Arden show has very very rarely been seen and she did have a crush on the biology teacher, but she was bright and witty and strong.

"It was the age of free love, the pill, feamle independence, and the character of Ann Marie was the first noticable female on tv (1966) that did this in a non-traditional female role."

I have to laugh. The sixties are the gift that keep on giving.

In a bad way.

Honey West! Exactly....and before that, "Decoy" with Beverly Garland. Gritty.

First of all, most people do have a boss, and can still be considered independent. Whether or not Ann had a boss is irrelevent to her being independent.

What is relevant is that Ann was something of an airhead, and Dawnnnnnn-ald and her father were always bailing her out of jams. The father apparently subsidized her rent, since she couldn't hold a job. That's not independence.

This show was not groundbreaking in the least.

I don't think that Ann's apartment was meant to show that she was being subsidized. Her place is the Hollywood Housing Effect at work. Most people in television live in places that are far too nice for their means. That Girl is far from the most blatant example; that might be Sex and the City. (A newspaper columnist in New York couldn't afford Carrie's apartment unless she inherited a rent controlled place. And then there are her shoes!) Norman Lear's shows, starting with All In The Family, are notable exceptions; he tried to bring things closer to reality. (Props to the original exception, The Honeymooners.) And then there are shows with characters who are rich enough that they actually COULD live in really nice places, like Dallas and Gossip Girl.

Partly it's because you need a big space with good sight lines to be able to film and not have things look horribly claustrophobic. Partly it's because it's just too depressing to watch the circumstances that would actually come with the lives of the characters.

Well said.



"I told you a million times not to talk to me when I'm doing my lashes"!

Whether meant to or not, Helen Crump came across as an obnoxious, overly jealous bitch. Ellie at least showed that a woman could be independent, self-confident and pleasant (cf. Mary Richards) rather than mean and bitter (cf. Murphy Brown) or a neurotic bundle of nerves (cf. Ally McBeal).

Your explanation of Ellie's disappearance has me imagining a mob of Mayberrians riding her out of a town tarred and feathered on a rail LOL.

What a great discussion...very interesting observations. I esp. love richardfuller1 and sjbradford's comments...very enlightening and I agree with you both. You both would make great attorneys. lol
New to these boards, but love em and IMBD!!

She didn't have to run to Daddy, he was always there delivering her laundry, which supports your point in a different way. But she was in fact living on her own and pursuing her own career; they just couldn't make her TOO independent back in the 60s. Like the decade itself, the show was a transition from the traditionalism of earlier decades to the (relatively) liberal lifestyle of those to come, with elements of both periods, so we shouldn't expect too much of it. Gloria Steinem considers Ann a pioneering example of the independent woman, and while I may not agree with her on much else, that's good enough for me.

Just a note about her rent. She lived in an old walkup apt. She was always having trouble making her rent. In one episode she mentions she needs $87.50 for her rent. That's typical of that type of apt in the mid to late 1960s - for either of the apts she had.

Ann always had jobs and usually got some type of acting job. Her agent discusses one acting job - a commercial or maybe it was as the mop on the children's show. It paid $50 for just a short job. So I imagine she was able to make ends meet with the combination.

I have the first and second season DVDs and I had a ball watching them. Nice memories of the era and the NYC in the 60s. During the commentaries by Marlo Thomas and Bill Persky they laugh about her clothes. They realized she could never afford those - almost every outfit had its own matching coat - but it was something they were willing to compromise on because everyone wanted to see the clothes. It was TV after all.

In one episode Ann looks up an old boyfriend and discovers he lives on 73rd Street and she says,"Just 5 blocks away from me." If it's the East Side then the address I remember they use would put it in the East River. And if it's the Upper West Side then it would be in the Hudson.

As for her dad dropping in, he would sometimes explain his city visits as business for his restaurant. That makes sense since his suppliers could have been in NYC.

As for me, this show was the first about a young woman who DIDN'T WANT MARRIAGE AS A GOAL. That was really the whole key. Maybe some people don't realize but for women of that era breaking away from that societal demand was earth shattering in many families. Geez, there's still incredible societal pressure for people to be married. It was much worse then. It doesn't mean she didn't want a boyfriend.

I read that Thomas and Bessell were planning a reunion for Ann and Donald for 20 or 25 years later when he died. If the show ended in 1971 then I guess it would have been 25 years later. The plan was that they never did marry and they meet again and fall in love. Awwwww. That would have been even sweeter than if they had married back then. I can envision that Ann had chance to go to California for some great job and Don had some great opportunity to go to Europe or Asia as bureau chief - Don not wanting to ruin her career or put her in a situation where she sacrificed her career for him never asks her to go with him or does something to make her break up - whatever. There had to be some reason why they lost touch and then reconnect many years later.

There you have it. I've outlined the reunion show. I wonder if they would consider it with someone besides Ted Bessell. I know it might be a sacrilege but it might be doable if they could find someone as sweet and masculine as Donald to replace him. They just need to get the voice right cause he's going to look different anyway. I'd like to see this. Get on that right away, Ms. Thomas.

No, you're not over-thinking the last point, in fact, you're quite right.

The show that really showed a woman working on her own, and not needing a man was this series: Decoy (October 14, 1957 to July 7, 1958, in syndication) starring Beverly Garland as an undercover police woman. Unlike all of those other series, this one was serious (of course) since it was about a police woman fighting crime. This show was heads and tails above shows like I Married Joan, I Love Lucy, Private Secretary,That Girland it was the one that started off shows like Police Woman and everything else on the air with women in it who are not housewives these days.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decoy_(TV_series)