Menagerie -- when did Mendez become an illusion? - Star Trek (1966) Discussion

[–] FKA_BrokenBadly 7 years ago

I always thought that he was an illusion the entire time, and that the court martial was a diversionary tactic to give Spock a chance to explain everything and allow time for the Enterprise to reach Talos IV.

Just my opinion - I could be wrong...

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[–] hansenmv2002 7 years ago

Not on the Starbase???

OT - I hope that cutting IMDB chat is some weird hack.

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[–] FKA_BrokenBadly 7 years ago

Not on the Starbase???

Yeah, probably not on the starbase. I don't know exactly when he went from real to illusion, but I don't think he ever boarded the Enterprise.

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[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

No, of course not. He was always back on the starbase, and right at the end Uhura relayed a message from him, from back at the base. It was probably him at the base to begin with, but he never got on the shuttle with Kirk. The illusion for Kirk started then - or shortly before - and perhaps some illusion for Mendez (maybe an illusion that Kirk was still there with him?) kept him at the base.

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[–] hansenmv2002 7 years ago

That sounds good - there was an illusion Kirk for Mendez on the starbase.

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[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

Or it could have been "reality" for Mendez. Maybe he knew Kirk got on the shuttle alone (he wouldn't know that Kirk thought Mendez was with him) to go after his ship, and thought that was just fine.

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[–] hansenmv2002 7 years ago

Spock had all the messages blocked.

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[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

Or, as I mentioned previously, if Mendez had an illusion that Kirk was still there with him - and/or maybe an illusion that he was sending messages when he really wasn't - then nothing would need to be blocked.

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[–] hansenmv2002 7 years ago

The Talosian said Mendez was never on the shuttle or Enterprise --- it sort of answered the q - how Kirk got on a shuttle alone... -- a rare ep that GR had sole writing credit on.

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[–] kerryedavis 7 years ago

Yes, that part was certain. I didn't even know how or why someone might think he had been on the shuttle and then, what, not transferred to the Enterprise? I pointed out the message Uhura reads at the end confirms that too, that he was never there, or he couldn't have sent the message from back at the base.

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[–] BiffGG 7 years ago

This board was an illusion. Soon you will find reality. May you find your way as pleasant.

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[–] hansenmv2002 7 years ago

Quite familiar with the ep(s) --- I asked WHEN. How Kirk left starbase in shuttle with an illusion Mendez --- I guess - whatever is the answer.

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[–] Abner_Kadabner 7 years ago

You're really not supposed to think about this episode as there are a great many unanswered questions. But to answer your original, he would have had to have "boarded" before the shuttle left, while the real Mendez remained behind. That of course means that Kirk has to be deceived during the whole trip, even to the point of "seeing" they only have X amount of life support left, even though there is actually one person instead of two. The other issue is that Mendez and Miss Piper would have had to forget about Capt. Pike, otherwise he would have sent ships out to the Enterprise for find out what was going on.

The other ignored point in all of this is it shows that the Talosians are an immense threat to the Federation. I don't know how far the Star Base was supposed to be from Talos IV, but it speaks to their immense power as they were able to manipulate everything. You have to wonder why they didn't destroy Talos IV to begin with. (And what do they do about the Star Base?)

And wasn't Spock still guilty of mutiny? Just because you have a really good excuse for stealing a starship, that doesn't make it okay....

--------
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[–] antonasmodeus 7 years ago

If the Talosians can create illusions on a starbase thousands of light-years away as they did in this episode, the Federation is meaningless. In other words, the Talosians are GOD.

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[–] BiffGG 7 years ago

I guess that it would be best to Trek-verse it as Spock initiated contact with the Talosians somehow to make them aware of Pike's condition. As opposed to the Talosians randomly probing space. Further, through the use of technology carefully arranged by Spock made it possible to manipulate the mind of Mendez at the Starbase. That without a deliberate technology bridge the Talosians could not have accomplished what they did at the Starbase. With no further need of this bridge with Pike delivered to his salvation Spock debriefed Starfleet as to the process so it could not be randomly employed again. It's the best explanation I have.

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[–] PaladinNJ (20310) 5 years ago

I thought they said the Talosians contacted Spock first?

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[–] strntz 7 years ago

The other ignored point in all of this is it shows that the Talosians are an immense threat to the Federation.

They would be if they were aggressive. Their aggression to the Federation was limited to trying to use a few of them for breeding stock. It's clearly not in them to do more.

The Federation however was impressed enough with their power of illusion to make policy to prohibit all contact forever (despite the fact that the Talosians could do what they want when they want).

You have to wonder why they didn't destroy Talos IV to begin with.

"They"? If you mean the Federation, I think that would have been impossible. They could have been manipulated into destroying their own ships or even flying into the sun.

And wasn't Spock still guilty of mutiny? Just because you have a really good excuse for stealing a starship, that doesn't make it okay....

I agree, but somebody in command has to make charge in order for the Court Martial to take place. If it was Comodore Mendez, he might have the power to look the other way. If so charged, Sam Cogley might argue that the Talosians were manipulating Spock, if only for purely altruistic reasons!

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[–] Beware The Creeper (4) 7 years ago

If the Talosians could project images as far away as the Starbase then what would stop them from reading the thoughts of everyone on that planet? Just sayin........

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