MovieChat Forums > Von Ryan's Express (1965) Discussion > Not a classic,forgot how bad it was.SPOI...

Not a classic,forgot how bad it was.SPOILERS


I have a couple of those FOX STUDIO CLASSIC boxed set and finally watched VON RYAN'S EXPRESS,have had it for years.

If you look up VON RYAN'S EXPRESS on the internet somebody somewhere says it is nearly as good as THE GREAT ESCAPE.

I cannot agree,I like Sinatra as an actor but he is too old to be a young officer and it is hard to take his character seriously,but I am sure I loved his informal American style when I was about 12.
Trevor Howard just complains all the time as the British officer.
The disputes between Sinatra's American officer and Howard's British officer are tiresome.

There is a lot of action and some great location scenes but I just don't see it as a classic war film.

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While I wouldn't go so far as to call it animosity British and American officers often clashed. Howard's character was the quintessential stiff upper lipped Brit who respected rank but was frustrated by this brash American fly boy pushing his rank around.

Yours sincerely, General Joseph Liebgott

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[deleted]

yes the tension between the two is perfect.

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Conversely, I think Von Ryan's Express is almost as good as The Great Escape and that Sinatra was ideally cast. The clashes with Howard added a further intriguing dimension to the film because Howard's character is mostly right in what he says. He's matter of fact and unflinching in his resolve, whereas Ryan is less military-minded and more cautious. The dynamic between them makes for great cinema. Von Ryan's Express is a certain classic, in my opinion, and actually out-grossed The Great Escape in America on release. Not that such equates with quality, but it does show how very popular this film was -- and still is!

NOW TARZAN MAKE WAR!

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Fincham hated Ryan's sentimentality and his willingness to compromise. Fincham is a very old-school soldier who sees any compromise as weakness, regardless of any positive outcomes it may have. He's also extremely tired and bitter and considers Ryan inexperienced and foolhardy.

Conversely, Ryan's problem with Fincham was this very same unwillingness to compromise. He thought that his never-say-die attitude caused problems which could've otherwise been avoided. Ignoring that the ultimate responsibility lay with Battaglia, it was clearly Fincham's refusal to cooperate which was to blame for the squalid living conditions of the camp (note that despite his cruelty and callousness, Battaglia did allow conditions to improve after Ryan compromised with him). Ryan also thinks that Fincham is too eager for revenge a lot of the time, and is disturbed his eagerness to use captured enemies as revenge proxies for the crimes of others (for example, von Klement had nothing to do with the SS' massacre of the wounded prisoners, but Fincham was ready and willing to kill him for it).

Both men are right about the other. Ryan is too sentimental and often compromises too much, and lacks experience while being too recklessly willing to assume leadership, while at the same time Fincham is stubborn and needlessly uncooperative, and too eager for vengeance, up to and including using proxies for it if he can't get ahold of the truly guilty ones.

This makes both men extremely realistic and believable as human beings with all of their very understandable flaws.

By themselves, neither man is fit to lead. But together, they balance each other out and for all their griping, they work together quite well. Each makes up for the other's shortcomings. Fincham brings his experience to the table, helping Ryan learn on the job, whilst Ryan tempers Fincham's more violent tendencies, and channels Fincham's directionless anger, helping him keep his mind focused on the task at hand.

"I mean, really, how many times will you look under Jabba's manboobs?"

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[deleted]

This movie sucked, I don't see Sinatra as any kind of good actor. Burt Lancaster would've done much better, but then Adam Sandler might do better.

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[deleted]

I disagree on some points. The "slapstick" I imagine your referring to is the Keystone Cops like action of the Italian soldiers tryin to put out the fire. Agreed its kinda hokey but I imagine the film makers were tryin to point out the Italan military's ineptness. In that vein it worked.

The morose Colonel made perfect sense to me or anyone who has a heart. To shoot a young girl even though she was a collaborator would bother even the toughest guy who had a shred of humanity. The British Major who wanted to kill the German officer as well as the girl lost his. Even the Padre asked him if he "...was that far gone".

The German speaking Padre also made sense. Many British officers studied German in officers training school. In the film The Great Escape, Roger Bushell who in real life headed up the escape group spoke perfect German.

I do agree however that takin over of the train by jumping the guards was far fetched and not handled well..

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who said sinatra's character was young?

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Sinatra was forty-nine when the movie was filmed. There were no fighter pilots that age. If his character was supposed to be young, it was ridiculous casting.

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it was a miscast.

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