MovieChat Forums > Lord Jim (1965) Discussion > The Short Unhappy Life of Lord Jim

The Short Unhappy Life of Lord Jim


**SPOILERS**

One man's attempt to overcome cowardice, does it, then dies because he gave his word something would happen and somneone else betrayed him. Not that good a movie, but decent. Reminds me of Shogun. I hated Shogun. In Shogun the main character committed suicide so the Japanese could look upon him with honor. Fu ck that. I lived in Japan and anybody dumb enough to commit seppuku so they would honor you... Jim was similar. Nobody died on the Patna, he regained his honor, had a beautiful wife, then threw it all away because of a mistake. an honest mistake, betrayed by someone else. I'd of gone somewhere else. These people in the early part of the century took honor too far.

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Well, perhaps. He regained his honor, but only in that village. In the outside world he was still a dishonorable man. So long as he could stay in the village he had a life; outside the village he did not. Or did he??

Yes, he could have lived in the outside world. But that was not the ultimate point. In fact, in the novel he did not suffer the extreme ostracism that the movie portrays. He had a number of good jobs in the world at the seaports, but would leave when the Patna incident was mentioned; even though nobody at those ports seemed to know that he was connected to that incident. Yet, the point was that HE knew what he had done and could not live with that. When he found a place where he could regain his honor then he could accept himself again.

Our hardest critic is ourselves. When he made that terrible mistake in the village he was not about to throw away what he had regained. The only way to keep what he had regained is shown in the film, and is not regarded as taking honor too far, even in our day and age.

By the way, we are in the early part of the century. I guess you mean the previous century. ;-)

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[deleted]

Again, I must remind everybody that one has to read (the book) or see (the movie) this story in the context of the late 19th century code of honor. Very strict and unforgiving.

Jim had pledged his life as nothing less was sufficient for the chief to allow the villians to leave. When that went amiss and the chief's son was killed then Jim was expected to pay the price. To escape at that point would have let him live; but the life would not be worth living. He would be trash-closest we have to that in this day and age are scum such as Robert Vescoe and Bernard Madhof.

By dying he would show that he upheld his honor; and he would die as an honorable man. His common law wife's smile was knowing that he would regain his honor- something that she knew that he had dreamed of for years. But, she was not fully approving of it (hence the "plastic" nature of the smile) as she knew that she would lose him. In the book, in the end, it is implied that she wasted away afterwards and died, of a broken heart, relatively soon after his death.

The end is not absurd, as seen in this context, though it still remains horribly sad.

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Think another reason Jim's girlfriend was smiling at the end was because she was a Buddhist and she thought that he would come back to a better life.
Although I can appreciate that Jim was doing the honourable thing, I agree with Momohund. I think that he was being far too decent and honourable for his own good. In some ways I think that Jim was knowingly committing suicide by staying there. Did not want to top himself so he sort of got someone else to do it. He was also going on about fate - what will be will be.
Also I thought that he was being completely thoughtless about his girlfriend. He was just going on about what he thought was the right thing to do and did not seem to be at all bothered about what would happen to her or what she thought. Stein should have used that as an arguing point when he was trying to reason with him.
Although I appreciate that he lost his son, I could not help hating the person who shot Jim at the end.
Good film, but very sad. Especially as things had almost worked out right for him and it goes wrong at the end. Best laid plans of mice and men.

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It appears that the definition of "personal honor" has dimmed somewhat in the new century...

The reason that Jim stayed and ultimately dies in the movie is that he gave his word that his life was forfeit should anything happen to any of the villagers. Understand, that he gave his *word.* When the son of the headman died, Jim's life was forfeit. He could run away and be branded a coward again, or he could stay, but if he left and lived, *he* would know he was the coward. He had finally regained a measure of his personal honor, and to run would have destroyed that again. So, he stayed and though he died, he died a man of integrity, even if only to himself.

That is a hard concept for many in today's climate of "all for me and none for you," but for many of us, it made perfect sense.

..Joe

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Scorcese's "Age Of Innocence" portrays a similar kind of long-forgotten honour as it applies to human relationships/marriage etc. Both films have sad endings but both are worth watching.

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Well, perhaps. He regained his honor, but only in that village. In the outside world he was still a dishonorable man. So long as he could stay in the village he had a life; outside the village he did not. Or did he??


My interpretation of Jim's character is that he is more interested in his own self-fulfillment. As long as Jim feels his death would result in restoring his honor, then so be it.


I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not.

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In his author's note to Lord Jim, written about 1917, Joseph Conrad had this to say:

A friend of mine returning from Italy had talked with a lady there who did not like the book. I regretted that, of course, but what surprised me was the ground of her dislike. 'You know,' she said, 'it is all so morbid.'

The pronouncement gave me food for an hour's anxious thought. Finally I arrived at the conclusion that, making due allowances for the subject itself being rather foreign to women's normal sensibilities, the lady could not have been an Italian. I wonder whether she was European at all? In any case, no Latin temperament would have perceived anything morbid in the acute consciousness of lost honour. Such a consciousness may be wrong, or it may be right, or it may be condemned as artificial; and, perhaps, my Jim is not a type of wide commonness. But I can safely assure my readers that he is not the product of coldly perverted thinking. He's not a figure of Northern Mists either. One sunny morning, in the commonplace surroundings of an Eastern roadstead, I saw his form pass by--appealing--significant--under a cloud--perfectly silent. Which is as it should be. It was for me, with all the sympathy of which I was capable, to seek fit words for his meaning. He was 'one of us'.

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I don't think it's so much about honour, as in a societal code, as it is about integrity. Quite apart from what societal honour might dictate, the fact that the crew quit without even launching the other lifeboat meant that had the ship sunk they would have been directly responsible for the drowning of those who would otherwise have been saved by the lifeboats. Plus, Jim's word had reassured the pilgrims so he had special personal responsibility. Most of all, he was the last to leave and therefore it was down to him personally, and not the captain or anybody else, whether the passengers were left entirely to their fate or at least one of the crew stayed to try to launch the other lifeboat, steer, etc. It's very dangerous to equate societal honour and integrity (Imperial Japan was honour-obsessed, but genocide was not considered dishonourable), but in this case both integrity and societal honour demanded that he seize control of the ship.
Again, when he stayed to be killed, it had been entirely down to him to let the bandits leave and, therefore, it was a matter of integrity to assume responsibility for the consequences, particularly as he had given his life as guarantee entirely of his own volition (just as he had given his word that he would not abandon the Patna). He could not have lived with himself if he had fled.

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In addition to the posts here regarding honour, especially that of a naval officer, I would add that Jim's determination to forfeit his life as recompense for abandoning the SS Patna was flawed. It is harder to live and make for one's self a good life with such a blight on the conscience but that is precisely Jim's challenge and he 'jumps ship' again by going into death and oblivion. Jim can be contrasted with Dr Monygham in Nostromo.

SPOILERS BELOW

In Nostromo Dr Monygham is an ex-pat with a chequered past. He had been tortured and given information that led to the deaths of others. He cannot forgive himself for this betrayal and leads a life held separate from others. That is until he finds himself in love with Mrs Gould and motivated by his love for her he sacrifices himself. He is not aware that his actions will cost his life but they do and he is committed to them because of love. The difference between him and Jim is that Monygham acts from love; Jim to try and restore some balance of conscience. Monygham is the more admirable because he lives and loves in spite of his betrayal; Jim never does.

The distance is nothing. The first step is the hardest.

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**SPOILERS**
Too late! Your subject is a major SPOILER!

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