MovieChat Forums > King Rat (1965) Discussion > Why was this camp so different??

Why was this camp so different??

posted 16 years ago by marigoldnlakie
14 replies | jump to latest

I love old war films, but this one just go me. Why was this camp so different than other POW films, such as Stalag 17, The Great Escape or Bridge over the River Kwai. Naturally the setting is much different than Stalag and Escape, but it is very similiar to River Kwai.

Why did these prisoners have such a lack of comradery or trust for eachother? Of course wheeling and dealing was common in all camps, but this was too much! I haven't read the book, but I have read Kwai and am in the process of reading Escape. Can anyone please provide me any insight as to why this particular camp was so different??

[–] CJ-Diggs 16 years ago

As you're probably aware, King Rat was based on the author/screenwriters own experiences as a POW over there. The story is fiction, but the camp and life there is supposedly pretty authentic. Kwai, I've just read on wikipedia was portrayed as less harsh than the actual conditions were in Japanese camps. (It did seem a little polished) In Europe, non Russian allied POWs were well treated by the Germans. The medicine was delivered through the Red Cross as per (I believe) the Geneva convention. They were properly clothed, fed and housed. The Japanese camps were the opposite. Medicine was siphoned off by the Japanese before it reached the prisoners as were food rations and other essentials. Especially in the end of the war, Japan was struggling to feed her own. I think it was this book that explained how only in the end weeks were the prisoners 'fattened' up and given proper medicine as the Japanese commanders knew they'd be held accountable for the ill treatment. (Too little too late, many were tried and executed.)

So, back to your original question; why all the distrust and discontent? Peoples moods change drastically when they're starved and forced to work in the hot tropical sun while living so close together in poor conditions, many of them suffering from disease. In this movie you see the breakdown of command and see how the most basic of human natures has taken over.. survival. You don't see that in the European prison camps cuz they were mostly in good shape and good spirits, all things considered.

Of possible interest to you, The Great Escape was also written by King Rats author, James Clavelle, he did the screenplay for both. The character Peter Marlowe is said to be based on himself. Marlowe also reappears in 'Noble House', the third in his series of 'Asian Saga' novels.

[–] marigoldnlakie 16 years ago

Wow! Thanks for your awesome reply sirdigger! I guess it does make sense that the conditions is what eventually warranted the behavior. However in the other camps (River Kwai and Stalag Luft) the prisoners both had to work toward a common goal, and I am sure that this increased comradery and took their mind off conditions at least. In King Rat they had nothing to do but sit idle, and you know what they say about idleness. Thanks a lot!

[–] tramky 15 years ago

I recommend highly the following book:

"Prisoners of the Japanese -- POWs of World War II in the Pacific" by Gavan Daws. It will provide much insight into a number of POW camps in the Pacific theatre. One of the best treatments of the subject I have come across.

I assure you it was all more dreadful than anything depicted in any movie, and there was some information I had never heard about before--for example, a Japanese transport was sunk by a British submarine off Sumatra in late 1944. Approximately 5600 prisoners on that ship died. Yes, that is five thousand six hundred, on one ship! Thousands of prisoners were on Japanese ships sunk by the Allied navies. All of this was characterized by a single phrase: Hell Ships. Never really knew all that.

If you want to know why the Pacific theatre and the war against the Imperial Japanese Army was so different from the war in Europe, read this book. You will understand.

[–] TorontoJediMaster 14 years ago

I knew of POW's being killed when their transports were sunk by Allied submarines. The USS Pampanito sunk one of these ships in September of 1944. As the submarine moved through the wreckage the bridge crew heard voices calling for help in English. They discovered British and Australian POW's in the water. They rescued 73 survivors and called in other subs to look for more survivors.

It was tragic (can you imagine the guilt the submarine crew would have felt) but the Japanese did not identify POW transports as, I believe, the Geneva Convention dictates.

When it comes to the question of discipline and camp conditions in films/books like The Great Escape versus King Rat, you have to remember how different conditions were for POW's in Germany. POW's in German Stalags/Oflags were treated in accordance with the Geneva Conventions. They were fed and given Red Cross parcels. They got medical treatment, acceptable living conditions, etc. Of course, conditions could vary from camp to camp. For example, POW's whose camp was a converted existing building (Colditz Castle, Oflag 9A, etc.) tended to have it better as they lived in a proper structure that had been built with care. POW's whose camp was a barbed wire compound with wooden huts (Stalag Luft III, for example) found things a little rougher, simply because the camp was recently built and was very bare bones.

[–] dfc99 8 years ago

The Japanese did not paint the Red Cross on their POW transport ships. They also did not recognize the Geneva Conventions and only occasionally gave names of allied POWs to the International Red Cross.

[–] jbs0902 13 years ago

And here I thought it was all because Americans are racist bigots.
What Tom Hanks wasn't right?

[–] dfc99 8 years ago

Prisoners of the Japanese -- POWs of World War II in the Pacific" by Gavan Daws

A superb book!

[–] TennesseeTarheel 14 years ago

What appeared different to me (and I was never in a prison camp), is that this camp had some channels for limited supplies. The prisoners were able to engage in trade with some of the guards and manage their own rations, instead of lining up for rations served by Japanese guards. When I was in the army, I knew of a few guys who had a talent for using the system for black-marketing purposes. Some of them made LOTS of money. King made the most of his resources.

[–] a-hollister-williams 12 years ago

The Great Escape was written by Paul Brickhill, although James Clavell did write the screenplay.

[–] Reedmalloy 14 years ago

Changi was an actual prison in Singapore used by the Japanese as a POW camp. Clavell was there. The conditions were as described, and the film does a good job of showing its actual wretchedness. As the intro put it, it was a prison with no hope of escape except death, or survival by any means to the end of the war. The film accurately depicts what it took to survive.

[–] amsdragons-2 14 years ago

and coincidentally, Hell Ships were just mentioned on wiki's main page!

What are they gonna say about him? What are they gonna say? That he was a kind man! - RIP, Dennis

[–] eddysl12 13 years ago

I did some extensive research reading about Japanese Pow camps. The Changi Prison Camp was a relative Heaven compared to the vast majority of Japanese Pow camps, where it was not unusual for the prisoners to be beat up on a regular basis, and used as slave labor, and quite often worked to death.

The brutality of the Japanese and of the Japanese system at that time cannot be overstated. Soldiers in the Japanese Army were regularly beat up by superiors for mistakes or failings, so it is no surprise that the soldiers routinely beat up civilians and prisoners of all types for their mistakes or failings as well. Japanese civilians were treated no differently.

The food rations at Changi were no different in amount or type than the regular amounts that the Japanese soldiers received. Of course the Westerners were use to a diet much higher in protein, so they did not do so well on a diet that consisted mostly of rice.

Prisoners did die at Changi, but this was usually the result of mistreatment received at other, much harsher camps. The Japanese left the day to day running of the camp to the Allied officers. Prisoners were free to exit the camp, so long as they were not obvious about it, because they had no place to escape to. The Jungles and the Ocean and the lack of any nearby Allied countries to escape to prevented that.

Red Cross packages simply had no way to get to the prisoners, because of Allied attacks on Japanese shipping. Prisoners at Changi were sometimes used on work parties, or transported to nearby towns to work in factories. They tended to have a harsh work schedule by Western standards, usually 12 to 16 hours a day, six or seven days a week. This type of schedule was also kept by the Japanese workers. The prisoners seemed not to mind working in the factories, because there they had Japanese civilians for bosses, as opposed to Japanese soldiers as bosses on a work party.

The whole of Japanese society at that time was extremely brutal, but also in a way sort of fair, in that pretty much EVERYONE at some point or another received a beating or a hit by a rifle butt. This of course does not excuse the working to death of too many POW's, or the outrageous behavior toward the POW's on the various death marches.

[–] mhlong 11 years ago

I enlisted in the USAF in 1967. During 8 week basic training, we were given dorm jobs. The airman whose job was to take out the trash daily had two other airmen fighting (yes, they fought!) over who could 'help' him because the outside trash dumpsters were on the edge of the smoking area, so the smokers could get one last cigarette in before bed. After Basic when I was in Casual-Awaiting orders, the Colonel in charge found a former Brunswick Lane finisher and had him re-do the Colonel's dayroom. His reward? Assignment to his choice of US bases. At tech school, I got on our squadron basketball team, the coach had already selected his starters before the season, then an airman showed up who had been a starter for U of West Virginia. Coach immediately replaced one of the pre-selected starters, then the base coach saw this player and pulled him up to the Base team (paid travel around Texas). All this in peacetime, non-stressful situations (yes VietNam was going on, but that was 10,000 miles away and pre-Tet) - bending of rules, favoritism, payoffs,all I'm sure against written regs. Now put these same people in a high stress situation where starvation is a daily problem. Surprise! Not. I suspect the reality behind the movie was actually downplayed a little for audience ignorance and acceptance.

[–] movies789 9 years ago

One aspect of POW life seldom alluded to in movies is the gang factor. Although King Rat did show some individuals caring for others, and showed that different nationalities (e.g. the Aussies) tended to stick together, it didn't venture far beyond that. But in the documentary "Wake Island: Alamo of the Pacific" (available for free on YouTube), one of the Wake Island survivors talked candidly about how, in the Japanese prison camps, they would form themselves into "gangs" (his word) in order look out strictly for each other - by implication, at the expense of and to the exclusion of other POWs not in their gang. Ugly stuff.