MovieChat Forums > In Harm's Way (1965) Discussion > 'Admiral' Torrey

'Admiral' Torrey

posted 11 years ago by PhillipNoir
16 replies | jump to latest

Rock looks great with his Navy eagles, but when promoted to Rear Adm, Lower Half, in the next scenes, he is wearing two stars on his collar (the insignia of a Rear Admiral, Upper Half). This has always puzzled me. Why the seemingly instant promotion?

A second point: John Wayne the man did not often play generals or admirals. Known to be a humble man in front of senior military officers whom he respected, do you think Wayne felt uncomfortable wearing the big gold stripe? I don't recall a "General Wayne" and certainly not an Admiral Wayne in any of his previous films. Instead, he seemed to prefer roles like Sgt. Stryker, Capt. York, or Col. Crockett -- men of action who led from the front.

For example, in the 1962 blockbuster, The Longest Day, Duke Wayne portrayed not a general, but an O-5 field officer leading his men into battle: Lt. Col. Benjamin Vandervoort of the 82nd Airborne. "Vandy" was no junior officer; he was twice awarded the DSC for his heroism at St. Mere Eglise and Nijmegen, and is singly honored at the Army War College in Fr. Leavenworth, KS for his leadership during both Overlord and Market Garden. Unique about Vandy, and perhaps what appealed to Wayne (and Charlton Heston, who also campaigned for this part) is the fact that Vandy was not a graduate of West Point. He joined the US Army in 1937 as private soldier after graduating from a small Virginia college and after successful completion of OCS, was promoted to 2nd lieutenant. Subsequent promotions placed him in command of 2nd Battalion, 505th PIR on June 1, 1944, tasked with jumping into Normandy on D-Day.

Had Wayne ever played a flag officer before IHW? I know he did a small part in Kirk Douglas' Cast a Giant Shadow, but i believe this was after IHW. Anyone recall another role where Duke Wayne led from the flag?

[–] ZIPPY-34 11 years ago

He played a general (Gen Mike Randolph) in Cast a Giant Shadow, though it appears to be a cameo.

He played Gen Sherman in How the West Was Won (Wayne as Sherman?) Another cameo.

He played colonels, majors and captains, but these were his only two Generals.

[–] blackjackxxx 11 years ago

Rock looks great with his Navy eagles, but when promoted to Rear Adm, Lower Half, in the next scenes, he is wearing two stars on his collar (the insignia of a Rear Admiral, Upper Half). This has always puzzled me. Why the seemingly instant promotion?

Fonda, in the role of CINPACII (Nimitz) promoted him to RADM LH when he assigned him as tactical commander of the (Ground Forces South Pacific Area) technically, by chain of command, under Broderick. Besides deserving the promotion, the added heft of being a Flag Officer, as opposed to a Captain, would allow him to get things done logistically that a Captain may not be able to do. He could, in effect, go around Broderick, directly to Fonda (Nimitz).

Push the button, Max

[–] CGSailor 10 years ago

Fonda, in the role of CINPACII (Nimitz) promoted him to RADM LH when he assigned him as... etc..etc...etc..

Great and accurate explanation as to why the promotion. But that's not the question of the OP.
The question more clearly stated is why does he appear to skip the rank of RADM LH straight to RADM UH.

You stated that Fonda promoted him to RADM LH... not true. There was no lower/Upper half. It was just Rear Admiral. PERIOD. And the device was 2 stars.
See my other recent posts in this thread for the more lengthy explanation as to WHY this is so.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] TanteWaileka 9 years ago

your catchphrase reminds me of Fred Astaire singing: We joined the naaaavy to see the world, but what did we see? WE SAW THE SEA. :)
That's all.

Life is a journey not a destination. Fear nothing.

[–] delriosong 9 years ago

That reminds me of Jerry Lewis singing "Oh, the Naaaaavy gets the gravy, but the Army gets the beans," in "At War With the Army."

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042209/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Ive lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rios Song

[–] rockmail 9 years ago

Wrong, Fonda specifically says Rear Admiral - Lower Half in the film.

[–] highwaystar50 10 years ago

The simple answer is that with one star, he would have been a Commodore and not a Rear Admiral.
KS

[–] CGSailor 10 years ago

The simple answer is that with one star, he would have been a Commodore and not a Rear Admiral.

The ACCURATE answer is that there was no rank of Commodore at that time and the rank progression was in fact Captain (Wearing Eagles) to Rear Admiral (Wearing 2 stars)

There was no one star rank at the time of the film setting. Having been done away with in 1899 and not reintroduced until April 1943 (Film is set during 1942)

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] delriosong 9 years ago

The ACCURATE answer is that

the film is set in 1941-1942.

Ive lived upon the edge of chance for 20 years or more...
Del Rios Song

[–] CGSailor 10 years ago

Rock looks great with his Navy eagles, but when promoted to Rear Adm, Lower Half, in the next scenes, he is wearing two stars on his collar (the insignia of a Rear Admiral, Upper Half). This has always puzzled me. Why the seemingly instant promotion?

While it seems he skipped the 1-star Read Admiral Lower Half (O-7) and went straight to a Rear Admiral Upper Half (O-8) from his previous Eagles Captain (O-6)... this isn't true.

The problem is that you are looking at it through the lens of today's Naval Officer rank structure. You have to look at it in the time period in which the film is set and the rank structure that existed then.
First off the whole O-1 through O-10 Paygrade scale didn't exist. That's a more modern invention.

the Film fictionally portrays events that mirror the real life struggle that took place in and around Guadalcanal and the Solomon Island campaigns during 1942 to early 1943

During that time, the rank structure was Captain(EAGLES), then Rear Admiral(TWO STARS).

There was no Commodore, or none of this Upper/lower half BS with Rear Admiral.
There was no 1-star rank equivalent.

Prior, it used to go CAPTAIN(eagle) - COMMODORE(1-star) - REAR ADMIRAL(2-star).
But the rank of 1-star Commodore was deestablished by Congress in 1899.

During WW2 in April of 1943, due to the Needs of wartime... the rank of a 1-Star Commodore was reestablished. But this is shortly AFTER the events and period of the film itself.

At the end of WW2 came a massive downsizing. All promotions to Commodore ended in 1947 and by 1950 all 1-star Commodores had promoted up to 2-star Rear Admiral or retired, left service.

During the cold war, the US Navy started referring again to Commodore as a TITLE, not a rank. The Title being used on Officers with the RANK of CAPTAIN, but who held command of multiple unit commands such as Destroyer squadrons etc..
During the cold war, the whole Paygrade scale came into effect.
The US Navy still only had the ranks of CAPTAIN (O-6) and Rear Admiral (O-8)

Rear Admirals were still a 2-star rank but depending on seniority, some of the junior Rear Admirals were being paid at the lower (O-7) payscale being used by the 1-star ranks in other services. This is where the whole Upper/Lower half came into play with the Rear Admiral ranks.

In 1982 this was addressed by reintroducing an official 1-star rank of O-7 back into the service with the title "Commodore Admiral".
This immediately drew a lot of criticism and it was the very next year reduced to just Commodore.
This immediately conflicted with the TITLE of Commodore being used by those Senior Captains with multiple commands.
So in 1983, the RANK of Commodore was re-titled Rear Admiral Lower Half officially for the first time as a 1-Star rank (O-7) with O-8 being a 2-Star Rear Admiral Upper Half (though the "Upper half" is usually just omitted and just called Rear Admiral.

So what you see in the film is Rock being promoted from Captain (wearing eagles) to the next higher rank of Rear Admiral (wearing two stars) as the rank structure existed at that time.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

[–] Tom444 10 years ago

Thank you for the excellent historical perspective.

[–] joe-911-222886 10 years ago

Great explanation CGSailor, best I've seen posted anywhere else.

[–] joegerardi-1 9 years ago

I think the confusion is because CINCPAC II (Fonda) specifically states that Torry was promoted to Rear Admiral Lower Half while reading the dispatch at the end of the dinner.

..Joe

[–] Bob-45 9 years ago

You are correct, that in the dispatch Henry Fonda reads, John Wayne is promoted to Rear Admiral, Lower Half. However, as one respondent pointed out, Rear Admirals wear TWO stars, as Navy one star flag officers hold the title of "Commodore". The Navy uses "Commodore" as a title, rather than a rank, as a fleet commander holding the rank of Captain will be addressed as "Commodore".

One of the most impressive aspects of "In Harm's Way" is its attention to detail. When Wayne is saluted but not wearing a hat (called a "cover" by the Navy), he does not return the salute.

The weakest aspect of "In Harm's Way" is the optical effects, though some of the model work is not all that good, either, even for 1965. However, the huge (up to 18 feet) ship models are so highly regarded, they held a place of honor at the Naval Gunnery School at Great Lakes Naval Station, when I was stationed there in the 1970s.

[–] mousalope 8 years ago

A second point: John Wayne the man did not often play generals or admirals. ... I don't recall a "General Wayne" and certainly not an Admiral Wayne in any of his previous films.

You just haven't lived until you've seen General Wayne.

This is real, not a fan parody...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPsc2uotAKo

[–] Tom444 8 years ago

By this point in his career he was a little old to be playing an ensign...