MovieChat Forums > Doctor Zhivago (1965) Discussion > 'Don't delude your self this was rape.Th...

'Don't delude your self this was rape.That would flatter us both'Meanin?


What did victor mean?

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He had just called Lara a slut and in his mind sex with her could not be rape. If rape was necessary, he was saying he wouldn't have bothered.

"I'm just as sentimental as the next fella when it comes to old times.....old times".

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What an awful putdown.

I live in a glass house, ergo, I throw no stones.

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Great way to put self-doubt into Lara's mind. I appreciated the scene right after where she looks into the mirror and her expression is like, "Was I raped or not, and what am I now and what can I do about it?" Smart direction and acting there, and sets up her desperate actions afterward.

"Shake me up, Judy!"

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Yes, it was done very well. I think when she looks in the mirror, it is because wants to know if she looks any different. Until that night, she had been a virgin. Now she is "a fallen woman", as some people of her time might have said. The fact that the intercourse was probably not fully consensual doesn't help much. She does not protest when the priest compares her to the adulteress that was told by Jesus not to sin any more. I think she was repentant, and she was following the priest's advice ("The flesh is not weak, it is strong. And only the sacrament of marriage will contain it.") by marrying Pasha. She did not want to be a slut, obviously.

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Was she a virgin, I thought they had been together before only this time he forced him self on her. Raped her. Thats what I thought the line was initially, like it couldnt be rape because he had already taken her virginity.

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No, Lara was no longer a virgin at that time. Actually, it is implied that on their first encounter, Komarovsky date-raped her. The action is taking place while the demonstration is culled. The captain yelling "Mount!" immediately after we saw Komarovsky kissing Lara, is more than just a coincidence. What follows is violenceā€¦and we are inclined to believe that what is happening to Lara, is violent, too.
I think Lara's dilemma is that part of her wants to be intimate with Komarovsky.

You may cross-examine.

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Lean's storytelling is amazing. After the initial rape, he cuts to the bright splash of blood against the white snow.

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I think that would've made more sense if he said "if this was rape," but by saying it so definitively muddles the meaning...

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i don't think there was rape at any time.this would be flatter to her because if there was rape she would consider her self pure when she's a slut who wanted him as much as he wanted her. and since he is a pig, if rape happened he would not consider it bad but something he would be proud of. so it would be flatter them both.

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I agree, that was not rape, he kissed her firt and he kissed him bak before the had even sex

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Consent is not a perpetual thing that cannot be withdrawn at any time. If you think otherwise you have some serious reflection and educating to do on what consent actually is!

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Just because someone has self-doubts makes them no less a rape victim! Lara was clearly not consenting. Even if she "gave in" eventually, it does not change she did not consent!

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