If you were Miranda how would you have plotted your escape? - The Collector (1965) Discussion

Hmm, good idea. I would have just hit him with the axe though.

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With the ax, like how she almost escaped in the book. She should have killed him with it.

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[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

Right then she would have been tried for murder, just picture that 'Woman held captive for months finally escape by killing her kidnapper with an ax to the head. Though the kidnapper never raped her nor tortured her by any bloody and painful methods, the woman feels that her actions were justifable and right.

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[–] franzkabuki 11 years ago

"The woman feels her actions were justifiable and right".

Of course her actions "would have been justifiable and right" - even if she´d given him several whacks. I doubt any court in the democratic world would have convicted her, be it for murder or manslaughter. Whether or not the dude raped or tortured her, is completely irrelevant.

"facts are stupid things" - Ronald Reagan

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[–] illyrianX 9 years ago

Right then she would have been tried for murder, just picture that 'Woman held captive for months finally escape by killing her kidnapper with an ax to the head. Though the kidnapper never raped her nor tortured her by any bloody and painful methods, the woman feels that her actions were justifable and right.

LOL you're trolling, right? If someone kidnaps you, you have every right to kill them in order to protect yourself. He abducted her and was keeping her prisoner. It doesn't matter if he physically tortured her; he was holding her against her will and was obviously a sick individual. If she had to decapitate him with an ax in order to escape, no jury or judge would call it murder.

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[–] BlueGreen 14 years ago

Only by psychological manipulation, I think.
That's the saddest part: he was relatively easy to manipulate.
She should have been more ruthless and a better liar, and she would have escaped alive.

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[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

I don't think so, he didn't even want to have sex with her then tell her he wasn't going to release her.

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[–] BlueGreen 14 years ago

That was after she had already blown the chances she had to manipulate him (although it's never too late, just much more difficult).
I am talking about the early days, immediately after she was abducted.
HE did abduct her because he was (or thought he was) in love with her, after all.

But of course, it's all hypothetical, anyway.

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[–] red_rackham_77 14 years ago

Okay in detail and full specify what Miranda should have done?

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[–] BlueGreen 14 years ago

There is no way to describe it in detail. ;)
A good manipulator - and a good liar, which goes with the territory - seizes the opportunities as they arise.

But if you insist, I suppose the wisest thing to do would be to suppress demonstrations of fear and/or disgust ASAP and - seeing he WAS intelligent, if warped - try very subtly (including body language) to indicate an "interest" in him. It would have to be done VERY subtly in order to be convincing, but if done properly, it would have worked. She would have gained his trust.
And that's where the necessary "ruthlessness" comes in...

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[–] dainty-omelette 14 years ago

^ i agree. she should have just been "patient", which i guess is near impossible, but she did spoil it pretty quickly. i would have faked early on that i was in "need" of him. you know? feed his ego and power as soon as i got my head together.

pretend you become dependent on him to take care of you. act as if you are really happy when he shows up etc. - but i do think it would be even better if you did this gradually, so it would seem as if he was "breaking you in" - which i guess could be even better for his ego. to "know" that he infact tamed you almost. (when you're just faking it, and rather gaining strenght and hate to break free one day)

and you never know at first if they are completely non-sexual interested, or if they are sexually attracted, but if you find out that he infact is not interested in your body, try to empower him in other ways, as BlueGreen said, subtle bodylanguage. ((For example making it seem like you were always "shorter", as in looking up to him in a way.))

and don't patronize these people, but dont seem completely daft either, - just blank enough for them to think they can mold you (he said he wanted to teach someone didn't he?)

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[–] BlueGreen 14 years ago

pretend you become dependent on him to take care of you. act as if you are really happy when he shows up etc. - but i do think it would be even better if you did this gradually, so it would seem as if he was "breaking you in"

Yes, exactly!

I like this analysis of yours (I mean the post in its entirety).
It's very detailed and well thought out.

The main danger, I believe - besides overcoming impatience and/or very possible feelings of disgust - would be to avoid falling into the trap herself.
Long-term pretending can do funny things to one's mind.
And seeing people develop feelings for you also can be very tricky.
(But it would all make a potentially good new film. ;))

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[–] astro_5000 14 years ago

what a dumb idea, you can never trick the tricker, especially they aren't simply a lonely guy who's misunderstood who can be bargained with.

A warped personality that hates you if you don't see things his way, but if you do he thinks you're manipulating him and that you're a liar. You will inevitably die if you don't fight for your survival.

Plus I would fight to the death then kiss ass and still die...which she did.

It was so easy for the women to just pick up a glass cup/bottle, painting and smash him over the head with his back turned. She had plenty of chances

for Christ's sake she smacked him over the head with shovel and the only thing she could do is freak out that there's blood and stay to be recaptured.

You want what? a easy solution where she can walk out of the door with no violence?? seriously dude or dudette, if life was this easy people wouldn't invent fighting techniques like martial arts.

the creator of the story should be shot, he had a sick sense of humour, at least in horror films like scream or what not if the bad guy MAYBE alive it creates mystery. This was just depressing garbage that seemed plausible in real life and if it DID happened and was on the news would you clap and say its awesome? i bet people liked it because it they felt it was poetic, symbolic and had some hidden meaning....booo i say.

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[–] Menthol_Rock_n_Roll 11 years ago

I'm not a violent person and clearly she couldn't reason with him. I would just talk to him and see his viewpoint and then at some point pretend he had cracked me open and started to feel tender feelings for him. Then, when the times comes, I would catch him unprepared and make an escape. Who knows in these situations lol? I do feel Miranda should have been a bit more empathetic and tried not to push him, since he was that unstable.

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[–] melinda2001 11 years ago

I'd have tried to channel McGuiver in the beginning. Once she saw she was completely sunk, she shouldn't have hesitated to finish him off with the shovel. At that point the only solution was to kill him or die trying.

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[–] gs-web 13 years ago

Miranda should have hit him in the head TWICE with that shovel.

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[–] red_rackham_77 13 years ago

and once on the knee cap to make it hard for him to chase her.

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[–] Falconeer 13 years ago

She was stupid to not give the man some degree of respect. Like alot of psychopathic personalities, Stamp's character was briliant, and not the fool that she treated him as. How would i have plotted my escape from such a man? I would not have plotted at all; i would realise that it isn't so easy to trick a master of mind games. Instead i would have played it straight, and talked to him honestly. I would have taken him seriously, especially during the "Catcher In the Rye" discussion. I would have enjoyed trying to make someone see qualities in that book that they might not recognize. And it would not have been an act; I found him fascinating. She talked to him like he was a child, and he could sense it. Thus, her fate was sealed, when she presented herself as just another manipulative game-playing female. Throwing herself at him sexually was her worst mistake as well...

"IMdB; where 14 year olds can act like jaded 40 year old critics...'

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[–] red_rackham_77 13 years ago

Sorry I have to defend her in this because he was wrong to kidnap her and hold her hostage to force her to get to know him. She was scared, she doesn't him and maybe she doesn't even want to get to know him, who wants to be forced to care about someone who is taking away your freedom. He gives her food, he gives her privacy and whatever elses she wants except her freedom and I bet even if he did win her affections 1) it would have all been because he robbed it from her and 2) he would never have allowed her to go to school to study art, or see her friends and family. He would have still kept her in his home and cut her off from society the same way he has cut himself off only now he wanted to drag her in solitudes with him.

As for her sex offering, given with enough time, Miranda would have started feeling the urge to screw someone and she probably would have begged him too but I bet he would refused her because she thinks it is dirty to have sex.

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[–] Zoomorph 13 years ago

^ First sensible post in this thread.

~ Observe, and act with clarity. ~

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[–] dainty-omelette 13 years ago

Red Rackham, yeah I see what you mean. He woul def. never ever let her out even after she would have married him or whatever the plan was, lmao. But I do think that eventually he would have let his guard down just the slightest. Say she lives with him a few more months. With all the privacy she was granted, she could have made herself a tool. Break her own mirror, hide a sharp piece.. come in behind him, stab him perhaps. Or be creative with one of the paint brushes? lmao i dunno, but yeah I do feel sorry for her.

also, The_Sultan_of_Hades, I totally agree with you on the discussions. I had art in school for two years and we were also "taught" to like Picasso etc, and how to justify why it's a good painting etc, but I still do not believe in it. I think a lot of "masterpieces" are ugly and meaningless, but our teachers taught us to enjoy it and tell us why it's good. But he is absolutely right, not perhaps because the paintings are not "realistic" because that's a bit beside the point, but basically many of the very abstract paintings, anyone could have made, (even if you've got the golden ratio an all that but some artists dont even follow this so it doesnt matter)

but she was so set on the fact that a Picasso is a masterpiece, end of story.. it just angered him instead because she didn't want to try and understand.

BlueGreen, lol yeah I guess if you go too far in pretending, you'll end up with a sort of stockholm syndrom and then suddenly defend him against yourself (oh he only kidnapped me because he loves me... maybe i'd be cruel to leave) etc.

What surprised me was that when she had that jar with the special butterfly, she didnt ask him to set it free, as in "if you love me, set it free".

anyway, yeah had I been in her spot when I hit him with the shovel, I would have just gone mental and made sure there was no way he could ever get up. Or atleast tie him up and run off.

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[–] ArizonaKnightWolf 13 years ago

All of you who are saying the Miranda should have clobbered him harder with that axe are missing the point of who and what Miranda is. She has very high morals about killing, and just can't bring herself down to the level of a killer, even if her own life is in danger. It doesn't make her weak, or anyless eager to get away, she just believes in her convictions. She is a very caring person. She was the prefect victim for Clegg to abduct. Another girl may have choose to fight back, and even go ahead and kill him with the axe. From his point of view, he got very lucky to have abducted a kind, gentle soul.

=============
Intellect and Romance Triumph Over Brute Force and Cynicism

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[–] 13 years ago

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[–] waldenpond88 12 years ago

Well, Stamp basically gave her what she wanted (paint, paper, books etc), so she could have asked him for nail polish and nail polish remover and claim she wants to look pretty for him.
A few days later when he would bring the tray with her food into the room, she could have splashed the nail polish remover into his face and eyes. That should keep him busy for quite a while...

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[–] 12 years ago

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[–] lusitanying 10 years ago

Remember how that basement had 2 different rooms, the one she slept at and the antechamber?

There were times during the movie where the psycho is inside the second room while she is standing on the antechamber. If I were her, I would have locked that door and rotate the shelves back in to place.

Of course I would have hidden some food in the antechamber during several days in a row and eaten as much as I could before locking Freddie on the sleeping room.

2 weeks after I would open the door again and find Freddie starved to death. I would get the key inside of his pocket and walked happily out of captivity! :-)

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[–] red_rackham_77 10 years ago

Another excellent idea.

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