MovieChat Forums > Branded (1965) Discussion > The fictional date of Branded.

The fictional date of Branded.


If Smoke Signal (1955) happens in the same fictional universe as the television series Branded (1965-1966), the Bitter Creek Massacre in Smoke Signal (1955) and the Battle of Bitter Creek in Branded (1965-1966) are likely to have been the same event, happening before Smoke Signal and the episodes of Branded.

According to the thread:

https://moviechat.org/tt0048634/Smoke-Signal/5cbd4aea0e45e31e6aea7d4f/The-Fictional-Date-of-Smoke-Signal

The fictional date of Smoke Signal (195) should be either sometime between April 24, 1868 and the end of 1877, or else sometime between April 16, 1869 and April 15, 1870.

John Pickard played General Phil Sheridan in three episodes of Branded, "Call to Glory", Parts 1, 2, & 3, 27 February, 6 and 13 March, 1966. If Sheridan has two stars on each shoulder strap those episodes would happen before March 4, 1869, and if he has three stars on each shoulder strap they would happen after March 4, 1869 - if they happened in real life. John Pickard was born June 25, 1913, and was 52 years, 8 months, and 2 days old when "Call to Glory Part 1" aired. Phil Sheridan, born March 6, 1831, would have been that age on November 8, 1883.

William Bryant (January 31, 1924-June 26, 20011) played President U.S. Grant in eight episodes of Branded between "The Mission" Part 1 on March 14, 1965 and "The Assassins" Part 2 on April 3, 1966. Bryant was between 41 years, 1 month, and 14 days and 42 years, 2 months, and 3 days old when those episodes were broadcast, which would put them in 1863 to 1864 if Grant, born on April 27, 1822, was as old as Bryant. Grant was president from March 4, 1869 to March 4, 1877.

Robert Lansing, born June 5, 1928, played George Armstrong Custer in "Call to Glory", and was 37 years, 9 months, and 22 days old when "Call to Gory Part 1" aired on February 27 1966. George Armstrong Custer, born on December 5, 1839, would have been that age on August 27, 1876. But George Armstrong Custer actually died on June 25, 1876, so "Call to Glory" must happen before then.

And no doubt there are other details in various episodes of Branded that would help to date them.

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05-26-19 I just saw "The Mission Part 1".

US Grant is president, and it is said that it has been 15 months since the court martial of Jason McCord.

Grant was president from March 4, 1869 to March 4, 1877, so "The Mission Part 1" must happen sometime between March 4, 1869 and March 4, 1877.

So the court martial of Jason McCord happened sometime between about January 1, 1868 and January 1, 1876, and the battle of Bittter Creek happened sometime before the court martial.

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On June 16 2019 I saw part of the episode "The First Kill" April 4, 1965.

Jason meets the family of the first man he ever killed, Tad Manning. Tad Manning was a Rebel soldier at the Battle of Fredericksburg, which happened in 1862 in real life. So if there was any mention of how long Tad was dead in the part of the episode I didn't see, that would indicate the date of "The First Kill".

Chad Everett portrayed both Tad Manning and Adam Manning. Chad Everett was born June 11, 1937 and was 27 years, 9 months & 24 days old when "The First Kill" was first broadcast, and younger when it was filmed. Assuming that Tad was 17 to 27 years old at the Battle of Fredericksburg in 1862, and that Adam was 17 to 27 years old in "The First Kill", "the First Kill" should have been sometime between 1862 and 1872.

If "The Mission Part 1" must happen sometime between March 4, 1869 and March 4, 1877, and "The First Kill" should have been sometime between 1862 and 1872, and if they happen close together in time, they should happen sometime between March 4, 1869 and the end of 1872.

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"Seward's Folly" (17 October 1965) is apparently about 7 years after the Purchase of Alaska. When Jason says it will take him another week to finish his report on Alaska, Seward says: "I've waited seven years...I can wait another seven days." So the possible date range depends on how precise Seward was s when he said 'seven years".

https://www.riflemanconnors.com/Branded/sewards_folly.htm

"Seven years" after March 30, 1867 - 1867.2438 - might be 7.000 to 7.999 years, making the date of "Seward's Folly" sometime between 1874.2438 and 1875.2428.

Or "seven years" might be 6.5 to 7.5 years, making the date of "Seward's Folly" sometime between 1873.7438 and 1874.7438.

Or "seven years" might be 6.000 to 8.999 years, making the date of "Seward's Folly" sometime between 1873.2438 and 1876.2428.

No matter how loosely Seward might have spoken, the date of "Seward's Folly" should be sometime in 1873 to 1876.

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"A Destiny Which Made US Brothers" (23 January 1966).

In "A Destiny Which Made Us Brothers" Jason McCord is delivered a letter which must be delivered at 3:00 AM on May 16, 1873. The lettering includes the phrase : "Ten years ago tonight", which was May 16, 1863.

https://www.riflemanconnors.com/Branded/a_destiny_which_made_us_brothers.htm

So the present time in "A Destiny Which Made Us Brothers" should be May 16, 1873, even though much or most of the episode may be a flashback to May 16, 1863.

If Branded episodes happen in the order they were produced or broadcast, "Seward's Folly" should also happen in 1873, and maybe a few weeks or months before May 16. That would be a little bit earlier than indicated by Seward's "seven years" remark, but not too much. Of course if Branded episodes weren't produced or broadcast in the order they happen, "Seward's Folly" could happen in 1874 after "A Destiny Which Made Us Brothers" in 1873.

Added dec. 23, 2019. When the soldiers wake up Jason at the beginning of "A Destiny Which Made Us Brothers" Jason says the army has been hounding him for two years. Thus Jason might have been convicted and discharged from the army about May, 1871, or maybe arrested for cowardice at Bitter Creek about May, 1871, or maybe even the Battle of Bitter Creek happened about May, 1871.

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In "A Taste of Poison" 2 May 1965, a cavalry officer says he never believed what they said at West Point about Jason McCord being a coward.

So presumably the officer entered West Point and completed a four year course, and was commissioned. And during his time at West Point, McCord was called a coward, which may indicate that Bitter Creek was probably in the 1860s.

I didn't see the officer's rank insignia. According to IMDB, the end credits of "A Taste of Poison" list Joseph Perry as plain "Cavalry Officer" - and are wrong. IMDB claims that the end credits of "A Taste of Poison" switched the roles played by Joseph Perry and Stuart Margolin, & that Joseph Perry played "Taeger" and Stuart Margolin played "Cavalry Officer".

When "A Taste of Poison" was broadcast on 2 May 1965, Chuck Connors, (born April 10, 1921) was 44 years and 22 days old, Joseph V. Perry (born February 13, 1931) was 34 years, 2 months, and 19 days old, and Stuart Margolin (born January 31, 1940) was 25 years, 3 months, and 2 days old. I believe the age range to enter West Point was the same as now, 17 to 22, and most cadets entered age 18 and graduated age 22, so the officer was old enough to have been a 2nd lieutenant for a few years.

The wounded officer recognizes Captain McCord, and says "I was with you at Fort Crook. I was the drummer, remember?". Obviously an officer around 25 years old would not have been a very old soldier before entering West point, but army musicians could be very young.

Fort Crook, Nebraska was named General George Crook (1828-1890) from 1891-1946 - after the era of Branded. I think that a fort in the Pacific northwest was briefly named Fort Crook. Fort Crook, California, was named in honor of General Crook, then a lieutenant, from 1857-1869.

Someone aged 24 to 27 in 1873-74 would be born about 1847-50 & aged 7 to 22 when Fort Crook, California, was in use, which is consistent with other data about the era of Branded.

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In "The Bar Sinister" the funeral of Sam Whitlaw includes a glimpse of his tombstone which seems to have a death date of 1874.

If the tombstone says he died in 1874 then "The Bar sinister" must happen in 1874.

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In "Nice day for a Hanging", 6 February 1966, Jason's friend Frank Allison is due to hang for murder.

Franks son Lon says that his mother died when he was 10, and Frank started drinking a lot. Frank put Lon in an orphanage when the war started, so Lon should be at least 18. Lon hasn't seen Frank for 8 years.

Frank says he was killing in the army for 4 years and couldn't stop when he got out.

So "Nice day for a Hanging" should happen about 8 years after the Civil War started in 1861, and thus about 1869. But if Frank and Lon met once after the war ended and that was 8 years before the episode, "Nice day for a Hanging" could happen about 1873, consistent with other episodes.

Or maybe Frank put Lon in an orphanage when he enlisted to fight in the Snake War of 1864-1868, which would put the date of "Nice day for a Hanging" about 1872, again consistent with other episodes. If Frank Allison was at Fort Crook, California, with Jason McCord and the drummer turned officer from "A Taste of Poison", that could have been during the Snake War of 1864-1868.

In "Barbed Wire", 13 February, 1966, Jason says he was in the region where the story happens once before, when he was stationed at Fort McDivitt for a while. Unfortunately, there wasn't any real Fort McDivitt that I have ever heard, of but there was a real Fort McDermit in Nevada from 1865-1869, a place where Jason McCord might have been stationed during the Snake War.

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In "The Ghost of Murrieta", set in the then small community of Los Angeles, thee is some talk about the future of Mexican president Benito Juarez (1806-1872).

Since Juarez died on 18 July 1872, the latest possible date for "The Ghost of Murrieta" would be July, 1872. I believe I heard that Juarez had three years left in his term as president and was expected to be elected to another term. After the defeat of the French in 1867, Juarez was reelected president of Mexico in 1867, and in 1871.

So "The Ghost of Murrieta" would most probably happen in 1868 or in 1872, and 1872 seems to better agree with the dates in other episodes.

A woman named Antonia was the lover of famed outlaw Joaquin Murrietta and was pregnant with his child 20 years earlier, but betrayed him to his enemies who killed him and cut off his head. Joaquin Murrietta lived from 1829 to July 25,1853, and 20 years after that would be about 1873-1874. So apparently Antonia was a little too distraught to worry about the precise time span and considered 20 years was accurate enough when telling the tragic story of her life.

So if "the Ghost of Murrieta" happened in real history and deducing its date was a problem for historians, they would guess that it probably happened as late in 1872 as possible for the characters to think that President Juarez was still alive.

If "the Ghost of Murrieta" happens in the same fictional universe as other western movies and television episodes, the possible date would be deduced from the dates of Benito Juarez and Joaquin Murrietta in those productions.

Juarez was the subject of Juarez (1939) and is mentioned in other movies and television shows.

Murrieta appears in:

The Big Valley Season 3, Episode 1. First aired September 11, 1967
"The Man Behind The Gun' 1953, with Randolph Scott, Murrieta was played by Robert Cabal

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In "Headed for Doomsday" 10 April 1966, Jason meets famed newspaper editor Horace Greeley (1811-1872) at a town called Spade City.

Greeley mentions that a couple of years ago his newspaper was very critical of Captain Jason McCord at the Battle of Bitter Creek.

If he means literally "two years", then his newspaper must have been criticizing Jason sometime during the period of about 1.5 to 3.00 years earlier. However, if Greeley used "a couple" loosely to mean "a few" years earlier, maybe Greeley was criticizing Jason about 1 to 5 years earlier, or maybe about 1 to 10 years earlier.

Greeley says he is planning to run for president in the next election, and at the end Jason says that he will vote for Grant. So obviously Jason expected that Grant would run for president in the next election. At that time there was a tradition that a president would never serve more than two terms.

In real history, Greeley ran for president in 1872, being nominated by the Liberal Republicans in May and the Democrats in July, and Grant ran for president and was elected in 1868 and 1872, and there were attempts to nominate Grant in 1880, but James Garfield was nominated and elected instead.

So the fictional date of "Headed for Doomsday" should be early 1872 before May, or about January 1 to April 30, or about 1872.000 to 1872.33. So subtracting 1.5 to 3.0 years from that indicates that Greeley's newspaper was criticizing Jason McCord for the Battle of Bitter Creek sometime between about 1869.00 and about 1870.833. Of course if Greeley used "a couple of years " loosely, he might have been criticizing Jason about the Battle of bitter Creek as much as 10 years earlier, or as long ago as 1862.00 to 1862.33.

Of course if Greeley ran for president at other dates in the fictional universe of Branded, the possible date range of "Headed for Doomsday" might be different.

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In "Headed for Doomsday" 10 April 1966, Jason meets famed newspaper editor Horace Greeley (1811-1872) at a town called Spade City.

Greeley mentions that a couple of years ago his newspaper was very critical of Captain Jason McCord at the Battle of Bitter Creek.

If he means literally "two years", then his newspaper must have been criticizing Jason sometime during the period of about 1.5 to 3.00 years earlier. However, if Greeley used "a couple" loosely to mean "a few" years earlier, maybe Greeley was criticizing Jason about 1 to 5 years earlier, or maybe about 1 to 10 years earlier.

Greeley says he is planning to run for president in the next election, and at the end Jason says that he will vote for Grant. So obviously Jason expected that Grant would run for president in the next election. At that time there was a tradition that a president would never serve more than two terms.

In real history, Greeley ran for president in 1872, being nominated by the Liberal Republicans in May and the Democrats in July, and Grant ran for president and was elected in 1868 and 1872, and there were attempts to nominate Grant in 1880, but James Garfield was nominated and elected instead.

So the fictional date of "Headed for Doomsday" should be early 1872 before May, or about January 1 to April 30, or about 1872.000 to 1872.33. So subtracting 1.5 to 3.0 years from that indicates that Greeley's newspaper was criticizing Jason McCord for the Battle of Bitter Creek sometime between about 1869.00 and about 1870.833. Of course if Greeley used "a couple of years " loosely, he might have been criticizing Jason about the Battle of bitter Creek as much as 10 years earlier, or as long ago as 1862.00 to 1862.33.

Of course if Greeley ran for president at other dates in the fictional universe of Branded, the possible date range of "Headed for Doomsday" might be different.

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