MovieChat Forums > Il vangelo secondo Matteo (1965) Discussion > Wonderful scene

Wonderful scene

posted 18 years ago by DC1977
8 replies | jump to latest

My favourite scene of this film is where John baptises Jesus. Its done in such a simple and understated manner and it works beautifully.

You can see that John senses an aura about Jesus and realises immediately who he is.

In today's cinema the moment where God speaks would probably be filmed with special effects and the point would be driven home with a sledgehammer.

Here the people that have gathered simply look into the sky and God's voice is heard.

Despite being an atheist, I've always found this scene incredibly moving.

[–] DukeRed966 18 years ago

John didn't realise who he was, but knew that he was not in need of a remmission of his sins. If he had thought that this was the messiah standing before him then why do you think he would send his disciples to ask Jesus whither or not he was the one he had been preparing the way for?

I also don't get why the baptisms are performed with a sprinkling of water when it is fairly clear from the wording in the bible that it was done by immersion. Apart from that i do agree that it was a wonderful scene.

[–] cos-9 18 years ago

DukeRed966,

That’s a great point, and one that I doubt has been brought up on any of the IMDB boards for "Jesus Movies". "Baptize" is an attempt to transliterate two Greek words. It’s always irritated me that translators of the New Testament always use this transliteration instead of just going ahead and translating the Greek word(s), especially since there are a number of suitable English words and phrases (and I assume that there are plenty in other languages as well) that would give a proper idea of the meaning of the original Greek word(s), such as dunk, immerse, submerge, plunge completely into, etc., etc...
This is obviously due to an agenda related to maintaining the way that this rite is currently practiced by most groups that call themselves Christian (who also usually perform it on infants, while in the New Testament, only adults are "Baptized").
It has led to some pretty inaccurate depictions of the event in question. One of the more laughable was the one in the Jesus miniseries from 1999, which had John "The Baptist" standing in barely ankle-deep water, which he sprinkled on Jesus' head.
I’ve spent some time around (and even in) the Jordan River, and let me tell you that it is much deeper than that for most of its length, perfectly suited for dunking, immersing, submerging, or plunging someone completely into it.
As for when John realized who Jesus was (and is), and how much he understood it and was certain of it, that's a tricky issue. Yes, after John was arrested and locked up in prison by Herod Antipas, he sent two of his Disciples to Jesus to ask "Are You the Coming One, or do we look for another?" This is found both in Matthew 11 and Luke 7.
But remember, John had said time and time again before "Baptizing" Jesus that he was preparing the way for one greater than himself, the Messiah. This is found in all 4 Gospels. Then, in John 1:29, when John sees Jesus walking towards him, before he's even "Baptized" Jesus and seen the Spirit descend and heard the Voice from Heaven, John says, "Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the World."

[–] DC1977 18 years ago

You must be right as you know the film better than I do.

To be honest, I'm going by my impression of what I remember from that specific scene. I don't remember much else from the film as I saw it several years ago.

I remember John the Baptist recognising that Jesus was somebody significant and saying that it was Jesus who should be baptising him.

I assumed this meant John knew who He was.

[–] ArkadyRenko 18 years ago

It's only in the Gospel of John that Jesus is imediatly recognized as the Messiah or of somebody with a divine nature. In all the synoptic gospels (Mark, Mathew and Luke), his nature is not imediatly acessed, and most of the time he is first taken as a normal human being. It's Jesus words in this 3 gospels that make people realise that he is more then human.... and of course, the miracles.

This is why in the synoptic gospels, John The Baptist doesn't recognize him imediatly as he who Elijah fortold and needs confirmation. Only the Baptist depicted in the gospel of John recognizes jessu as the son of god imediatly.

and sicne this movie is based on the gospel of Mathew, it stands to reason that the Baptist does take a longer time to realise who Jesus is, if you know what i mean.

"A good movie is three good scenes and no bad scenes" Howard Hawks

[–] oscarinca 15 years ago

It was like the use of fire in India. Being submersed or being sank into the water was like drowning the one to be baptized, he had to be ready to DIE before the rite. Because you reborn in a new sense only when you're ready to leave this life.

John the Baptist was shocked because Christ didn't just follow John's message as in the beginning but something more that he couldn't understand. Christ was bigger than the one who baptized him, so he was insecure after a time and needed extra data.

There's a thin gap between skepticism and cynicism

[–] PoppyTransfusion 10 years ago

John didn't realise who he was, but knew that he was not in need of a remmission of his sins.

John did know who he was. He remarks that he, John, needs to seek baptism from Jesus and yet Jesus has come to him to receive the sacrament.

Movement ends, intent continues;
Intent ends, spirit continues

[–] moiestatz 14 years ago

I agree with you. I was once a serious Catholic, but I’m now agnostic. While watching this film just earlier, I couldn’t help getting moved by how Jesus’s story is portrayed. Pasolini is very skillful in subtle and understated emotion. Quite effective direction and acting, especially from the Jesus actor. Reminded me of the days when loving God placed very prominently among my priorities.

[–] pjglynndoora 11 years ago

Mozart's music really adds to the scene as well