Marxist?


I've read many comments about this film saying that it is Marxist. Yet, every word of this film is taken directly from the Gospel of Matthew in the New Testament. So, how does that make it Marxist? I would really like to understand this comment. Are you saying the Gospel is Marxist? How is Jesus portrayed as a Marxist?

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No, this film is not marxist (except as, as yu say, the gospels are to be considered marxists)

PP Pasolini was a controversial character, and critics mixed his work with his definitely left politic opinions. But he is here faithful to the gospel text, and his scenery seems more oriented on mysticism than on politics.

Though Mattew is traditionnaly depicted as the poorest of Jesus followers. This choice of text is not plain neutral.

This movie was a source for many controversies that may seem hard to get today, but Pasolini decided to shot it with italian peasants and workers, and no professionnal actors. This was interpreted by the church officials as a kind of insult to the christ (it seems that bishops then prefered and hollywood/blonde beard version of Jesus).

Pasolini wanted spontaneity to the play, thought these people would be much closer to the actual characters of the gospels, who are mostly peasants or crafters. And avoid identification of the Christ and others with famous actors and other movies.

Another polemic was raised by the appearance of Jesus as a child playing with brothers and sisters, which is and was at the time a controversial point, linked with the virginity of Mary, but one of the gospels talks about brothers & sisters for Jesus.

These and some other polemics was raised by people who despise art, movies, and probably never saw it, but are keen to engage on sterile polemics and on political rigteousness.

Pasolini himself was a controversial character and was brutally murdered in the Italy of the late seventies/early eighties by far right activists. I find it dommageable that their point of view that the movie is marxist is taken as a fact, even on a neutral comment such as Imbd's.

This movie is to me not only one of the greatest movie ever made, but as one of the greatest work of art ever made. Pasolini, whoever he was and his politcal opinions were, was a genius in the true meaning of the word.

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Pasolini himself was a controversial character and was brutally murdered in the Italy of the late seventies/early eighties by far right activists

Actually he was murdered by a rent boy.

Otherwise, your comment is very insightful.

The film does show Christ as a revolutionary in that he went up against the established order and they did him in. The contemporary relevance of this is pretty clear for anyone who wants to see it (Pharisees=Vatican etc).

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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The official story behind Pasolini's death has long been discredited and it is now widely accepted that he was murdered by right wing extremists.

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All sorts of things are "widely accepted", from the notion that the Kennedy assassinations were CIA conspiracies to 9/11 being a plot by the US government. But I'll look further into the Pasolini issue when I have time - there was no shortage of right-wing extremism in Italy at that time, for sure.

I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.

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Abel Ferrara's 2014 film Pasolini* goes with the theory that Pasolini was murdered by a group of homophobic men with the rent boy as a participant who may have helped set up the murder. According to what I've read, the amount of wounds inflicted on Pasolini's body suggested a frenzied assault that was not commensurate with the rent boy's character. His testimony during the trial also suggested the involvement of others. They were rumoured to be Sicilian. I doubt the truth will ever be known.

*not recommended for viewing...

I give my respect to those who have earned it; to everyone else, I'm civil.

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I wonder if the ones who said this film is marxist would have said the same thing without knowing who Pasolini was. I mean that if they had read or known he was (for example) a fervent christian, they would have probably said this film shows the real essence of the christian message.
Try to watch this beautiful film without preconceived ideas and enjoy!

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Pasolini was a Marxist, one of Marx's ideas being that only human action enters into the equation of history, that there is no God that influences events. It is possible to think of that when watching the movie, considering that Pasolini keeps things unglorified and it focuses more on the specific actions that took place rather than any divine rule.

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I don't know the man (and wiki may not always be accurate) but the Wiki page on the director says he was a political leftist, and an atheist with homosexual tendencies (not really explained in detail). The poor man was also murdered for unknown reasons.

He was a very challenging filmmaker. One quote from him via the same page:

"If you know that I am an unbeliever, then you know me better than I do myself. I may be an unbeliever, but I am an unbeliever who has a nostalgia for a belief." (1966)

The same page says the Catholic Church supported his creation of the Gospel According to St. Matthew which he intended to be made from the point of view of a believer, but saw also his own ideas coming out in the film.

I just watched it the other day and greatly enjoyed it. You can tell it's very low budget, but I can see how it gained its reputation. This is another view of Jesus to go with the pantheon (pardon the term) of excellent Christ movies out there. Not the best, but one of the best. His Jesus is not a demystified Jesus, but a charismatic leader who does miracles and rises from the dead. He has real power. Surely the marxist in the director sees parts of Jesus he identifies with, like the power he asserts in uplifting the poor and suffering, and challenging those in authority. Angels and the Devil appear (though they are not identified as such) with the Devil appear as a tall man in a black coat, and the angel as a young woman in white. The voice of God speaks from heaven to a crowd, and Joseph is spoken to in dreams. He doesn't attempt to whitewash Jesus' message, all of the text appearing to come from the King James Bible (which I think is a bit harder to read for modern ears, but has a certain character all its own in this movie, I wonder what it sounds like to an Italian speaker?).

Marxist thought is definately atheist, although some have tried to take Marxism and meld it with Christianity (hence where you start to get Liberation Theology, though some would object to the notion that it is Marxist, and would point out instead to the similarities of the two philosophies in certain aspects, but which are coincidental). Some read socialism in the New Testament (such as some communities sharing everything in common, denouncing wealth and riches and the evil social order, etc). For whatever reason, he created this movie and I think it can give a profound vision of Jesus, definately worth a viewing.

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The point of the movie is that if Jesus was alive today he would "translate" into a Marxist revolutionary. Or, marxist revolutionaries are the "jesuses" of our time.

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Thing is, yes, Pasolini did call himself a Marixt, also when being interviewed about this film. He also mentions having grown up with what he calls an irrational christian belief. So, what he did was, pick up the Bible and feeling again very strongly about what he found in there. Apparently he didn't like the other gospels as much as he did Matthew's, so he decided to make a film out of that particular one, also since it is the gospel in which Jesus is portrayed most as a human being.
The Marxist element, if you will, is not visible on the surface, as the surface matter is all from the Bible. It is deeper than that. It lies, for instance, in the perspective that is chosen, the emphasis on people's faces, the people who lived with him and believed in him. It is in their perception that
Jesus is divine. A perspective from the people, a historical perspective which is generated from the Marxist conception of history as a continuous struggle of classes, the mass of people propelling history forward, is indeed a very Marxist perspective.
Also, the parts about how hard it is for rich people to gain access to heaven and how earthly goods like money are less valuable compared to faith etc, are obviously very fit for any Marxist, even though they're straight from the gospels.

--
These games are being degraded by the increasing use of professional tricks to stay alive!

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Somebody earlier said Pasolini was a Christian. Actually that is not true. He is quoted in Tatum's book "Jesus at the Movies" as saying "I, a non-believer, was telling the story through the eyes of a believer."

After I study this film more, I would like to revisit this thread and have something to say about the marxism in this film. He doesn't seem to want to debunk Jesus even though he has Marxist view of the Jesus Movement. He wants to tell it through the eyes of a believer.

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[deleted]

There are many passages in both the Old and New Testaments that can be easily made to fit into a Marxist framework. "The Ten Commandments" can easily be seen as a Marxist movie, since the liberation of the People of Israel from bondage in Egypt is seen by liberation theologians as an example of God taking sides in the "class struggle." That Pasolini was a Marxist in no way invalidates his accomplishment in "The Gospel According to Saint Matthew". He didn't have to put anything in the story that wasn't there because what he wanted to say had already been said 2,000 years ago.

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Jesus Christ was the first communist in the world....

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"Jesus Christ was the first communist in the world..."

No, He wasn't. He advocated willing generosity, not theft through legislation.

+++by His wounds we are healed. - Isaiah 53:5+++


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Very upset by the mention of the word "Marxist"? Why? Of course it's important if Pasolini was Marxist if we are to interpret the film and any messages it might have beyond Matthew's literal account.

Mary was probably sixteen or thereabouts when she gave birth to Jesus Christ. This was a normal age for marriage and childbirth at the time. So the actress was young enough. "Only a period of about 33 years" would mean that Mary would be almost fifty at the time of Jesus' crucifixion. Maybe the actress was a bit too old, but not by that much.

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In the easiest, quickest sense, yes.

One only needs to really understand the Sermon on the Mount which is essentially contained wholly in The Gospel According to St. Matthew and probably why Pasolini singled that gospel out over all others (since yes, he was a Marxist in his daily life). Read that, and then a quick understanding of Marx's core beliefs and you'll see obvious similarities.

When the supernatural is stripped from the Jesus' tale (as Pasolini believed, and I feel he was correct in doing so), he could be read as a revolutionary on class terms.

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[deleted]

why would anyone have a problem with louis marx? marx toys were great in the 60s.
I frankly don't really know what a marxist is, this is a great movie.

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[deleted]

I have no idea why this film is considered Marxist. Jesus's preaching mocks those whose belief is maintained and bolstered by material trappings and power. He is scathing of religious hypocrisy. For me this film showed how much Jesus threatened the religious structures and orthodoxy of the Jewish people. It is about challenging and rocking the establishment but why does this have to be labelled Marxist?

Movement ends, intent continues;
Intent ends, spirit continues

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Jesus wasn't "marxist" or "communist" or whatever. Those are words that he would have been unfamiliar with.
Those are words that color our thoughts, not his.

Not that those words are completely off point however.

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