MovieChat Forums > The Masque of the Red Death (1964) Discussion > would Europeans have known what a gorill...

would Europeans have known what a gorilla was in the Middle Ages?


I wouldn't think so.

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I think they would have. Europeans would have already visited the parts of the world where gorillas existed by that time so I think they would have knowledge of them, although most probably had a pretty inaccurate idea of what they looked/behaved like.

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Yes, but they were pretty much thought of as mythical hairy men (Hanno mentions gorillas as early as 5th century BCE). The first verification of their existence for Europeans came as late as 1847, as before that they were considered mythical. The mountain gorilla was discovered even later in the 1900s by Europeans.

Of course, various African ethnic groups have known of their existence for centuries.



Formerly KingAngantyr

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Supposedly these are educated, albeit corrupt, people and have at least heard stories of the "great ape".

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maybe they knew them as neanderthals!

Its that man again!!

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Europeans did not know about Gorillas until they were discovered in the nineteenth century.

However, they did know - at least those who had the right education, who were probably few - about the word gorilla, because Hanno reported that the "hairy people" he encountered were called gorillas by more normal locals. Nobody knows if those gorillas were humans or apes.

In 1862 General McCellan referred to President Lincoln as a gorilla, I don't know if he got the term from Hanno's report or from contemporary zoological discoveries.

By the way, the movie is clearly set in the Middle ages. But there is no real indication in Poe's story that the story has to happen before 1500 or even 1600, 1700, or 1800.

Since the Red Death is an imaginary plague it does not have to happen in the 1340s like the Black Death. It does not even have to happen in Poe's past. It could happen in Poe's future.

If you read Poe's story "Mellonta Tauta" you can see how Poe envisioned the distant future of 2848, and note that there were still plagues ravaging it centuries after our time.http://www.online-literature.com/poe/2184/

Poe says that Prospero's masquerade was in a suite of seven rooms,and calls it an imperial site. So the events of the story would seem to be happening after the term "imperial suite" was invented for a suite of seven rooms. http://www.online-literature.com/poe/36/

"In many Palaces, However, such suites form along and straight vista, while the folding doors slide back nearly to the walls on either hand, so that the view of he whole extent is scarcely impeded."

Palace suites with many rooms in a line and long vistas from room to room were just a few centuries old when Poe wrote.

Note that the abbey where Prospero hid out doesn't have to be medieval. There are plenty of monasteries, abbeys, priories, and convents operating today and no doubt new abbey buildings will continue to be built well into the future. furthermore, there had been abbeys and convents so powerful that they ruled states of the Holy Roman Empire up to a few years before Poe's death.

Did Prospero use soldiers to evict the monks living the abbey when he secluded himself there?

Actually the story says: "..and with these retired to the deep seclusion of one of his castellated abbeys. This was an extensive and magnificent structure, the creation of the prince's own eccentric yet august taste."

Thus Prospero would have followed the late eighteenth century and nineteenth century fad for building a fake Medieval ruined castle or monastery as a scenic attraction in the garden, or even as a habitable mansion, like Beckford's Fonthill Abbey. So Prospero's abbey was really a fake abbey which had never been inhabited by monks.

Since Prospero, "a thousand" noble guests, and their servants lived in the abbey, Poe probably imagined it was at least as large as Ashridge, Alton Towers, or the Medieval Palace of the Popes at Avignon, and probably had acres of grounds surrounded by its wall.

Prospero is described as a prince and/or duke who had several such lavish country residences, as well as at least a thousand knights and ladies at his court. and there is reference to "his dominions", implying that Prospero was a territorial ruler. There were ruling princes and dukes in Europe in Poe's time, and Poe probably believed there would be for many centuries to come.

So it is perfectly possible that Poe and his readers imagined that "The Masque of the Red Death" might have happened in Renaissance or later eras, or might happen sometime in their future, or even our future.

Of course while Poe's story, which doesn't mention gorillas, might be post Medieval, the movie is certainly set in some Hollywood Middle Ages, so that does not help with their knowledge of gorillas!

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The movie has a sub plot based on Poe's story "Hop-Frog". Despite Hop-Frog being a court jester, "Hop-Frog" does not seem to be set in the Middle Ages either.

http://www.online-literature.com/poe/2197/

Poe writes that at that time Fools and jesters had not yet fallen out of favor in every court sand several of the great continental powers still retained them. There were jesters at the English court until about 1642 and at several German and French courts up until the French Revolution beginning in 1789.

Hop-Frog tells the King that in his country they have a practical joke called "the eight chained Ourang-Outangs". One of the king's generals had captured Hop-Frog and Trippetta and sent them from their native land to the King's court. Thus we may suspect that the king was the king of the Netherlands, which ruled a lot of the East Indies where orangutans are found.

However, in Poe's era Europeans imagined that all great apes, including Asian orangutans and the chimps and gorillas in Africa, were one single, little known-species. Thus Hop-Frog and Trippetta could have been captured from a small European colony in Africa, and the King might have been the king of England, the king of France, the king of Spain, the king of Portugal, etc.

It is said the first live Orangutans arrived in Europe in 1776 http://www.research-assistance.com/paper/23987/a_ra_default/orangutan. html

Thus it would appear that the possible date of Hoop-Frog would be about 1776 to 1792 when the French Revolutionary Wars started and the use of court jesters would have been gradually abandoned. Only about 16 years or so.

Of curse, Poe and his readers probably didn't bother to look up information to narrow the date down so closely. But it certainly looks like Poe and his readers would have imagined a post-Medieval date for "Hop-Frog" as well as for "The Masque of the Red Death".

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It's an interesting question.

One assumes the Ancient Egyptians did as they are on the top of Africa and must have traded and explored south over the centuries. If so, one must then assume that both The Greeks and Romans did too as they came into contact with the Egyptians. If so one then probably should assume that after the Collapse of the Roman empire they were forgotten about during the Dark Ages.

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Judging by the armour worn by the soldiers, the film is set in the High Middle Ages, not the Renaissance or the late Medieval era. It is highly unlikely that Europeans would know of the existence of Gorillas, even less so that they would possess a Gorilla costume.

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Was it even specifically referred to as a gorilla, or just as a generic ape? Monkeys were certainly known of in the Middle Ages and earlier, so Europeans in that time were aware that there were primates of some sort or other. Sub-Saharan Africans and Asians of course were far more familiar with them, as non-human primates mainly live in tropical regions, but Europeans were also aware to a lesser extent. The Romans for instance liked to import exotic animals from Africa. And as others have said, people in the Middle Ages had myths about gorilla-type creatures, like how we have myths about Bigfoot today.

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It wasn't referred to as a gorilla costume, but rather as an "ape" or "great ape" costume. Furthermore, the suit & mask didn't resemble a gorilla and was akin to a huge chimp in the shape of a man; compare: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xMd6pyyMbc

So it's a non-issue.

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