I wonder how authentic it sounded to this native British costars.
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Anyone and everyone (even Dick Van Dyke himself) knows it's a horrible accent. It's fairly consistent in being voted the worst of all time - although Julie Andrews has said (paraphrasing) how delightful she thinks it is.
shareThey probably thought 'Luv a duck Guv'nor, what the bleeding 'ell does he fink he's doin'. Somebody 'ave a word in 'is shell like'!!!
Gentlemen, England will be playing 4-4-f---ing-2
It isn't very authentic or so it's not thought to be, being British myself, I thought it was charming though, if bad nonetheless. :)
Believe me, nothing is trivial. - Eric Draven, The Crow.
From the trivia section:
On an episode of National Public Radio's "Wait, Wait, Don't Tell Me" (broadcast October 25, 2010) Dick Van Dyke was asked by host Peter Sagal about his notorious accent in this film. Van Dyke stated that his vocal coach was Irish-born J. Pat O'Malley, who had an even worse British accent.
Question for persons from England: Was Van Dyke's accent at all reminiscent (sp?) of any dialects found in England? I'm just not really sure what he was going for (his performance will entertaining nonetheless).
-- Sent from my 13 year old P.O.S. Desktop®
To be honest, it doesn't sound like anything. Of course, there is no such thing as a 'British accent' per se, there being dozens of regional accents in the UK. DVD is supposed to be a Cockney chimney sweep, Cockney being a description for the inhabitants of East London. He attempts this but it sounds like he puts every vowel through a mangle. To get close to an approximation of what DVD should have sounded like, listen to British actors like Jason Statham or Ray Winstone, or any of the recent crop of British gangster movies, which are generally set in the London underworld. Many are not actually Cockneys, but the London area comes close enough to what the accent should have sounded like. Or watch an episode of Eastenders on Youtube.
shareIt's simply a very poor attempt at a London cockney accent....it sounds more like an Australian accent to us Brits!!
shareAs an American who has spent many years studying the different types of British Empire accents, I think it sounds like a blend of different ones. At any given time, I might hear West Country, Irish, Aussie, and something that might have come from some part of London by way of Yorkshire...ish...all coming from the mouth of Dick Van Dyke. :)
"Hey! If...if we had some rope, we could make a log bridge...if...if we had...some...logs."
apparently his voice coach was Irish and he never (neither did anyone) told DVD his accent was awful. Poor Bastard!
If those pen pushers up at city hall don't like it,well, they swivel on this middle digit!
J. Pat O'Malley, who had an even worse British accent.I'm afraid to say that DVD is talking rubbish. J. Pat O'Malley is the voice of Hathi, and Buzzie in Jungle Book. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either of those accents.
Very good reason---J.P.O'Ma;ley WAS British!
Twitter account:SJCarras
MAGIC=Sarah Silverman.
J.PAT O'MALLEY? Wow..he was a Disney actor (mostly cartoons-I think he did voices for Warner Bros., MGM and others in Hollywood) in his own right already (even in the later, 1967-era, Jungle Book as lead Elephant Hathi.)
Sarah Silverman Is Magic
Amanda Bynes is hot, Lindsay Lohan is not
Also FYI J. Pat O'Malley was actually English not Irish. As shown here
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0641729/bio?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm
Let Zygons Be Zygons.
Bert's accent was not bad in and of itself. It worked in the film, and gave the character a bit of charm. That being said it is widely consider HORRIBLE in its authenticity. But it worked, and that's that.
Honestly, I think where Dick Van Dyke really shined in this movie was as the elder Mr. Dawes. Now THAT was funny. The voice, the movement, the walk, the talk, all of it. Hilarious to the core.
Dick himself now accepts that his attempt at a Cockney accent was way off beam. On the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang DVD he explains this by saying that as he was neither a singer nor a dancer and had to do a great deal of both in MP, he concentrated on those aspects, to the neglect of Bert's speaking voice. Personally I think that's a bit weak and unprofessional but it's what he now claims. I do agree with a previous poster in wondering why none of his mainly English co-stars could not have pointed out that the accent was awful.
Has anyone ever heard Kim Novak's so-called Cockney in 'The Notorious Landlady, which is very nearly as bad? She plays an American masquerading as a London maidservant with an accent supposed to take in not only expatriate Yanks (which is possibly acceptable) but also Londoners (which isn't).
I agree with you, herbsuperb, about Dick's brilliant cameo as Mr Dawes Senior but - please - it's 'shone', not 'shined'.
Seriously, Bert's accent is legendary, generally considered one of the worst accents in film history even by Americans. In his autobiography Dick van Dyke says that afterwards, when he finally gave in and accepted the lead role in CHITTY CHITTY BANG BANG, he himself stipulated that he not do an English accent because of what happened on MARY POPPINS.
However, this idea that he was in any way "unprofessional" is ludicrous. It was incredibly hard work for him to do the dancing and singing he did in MP, and his professionalism was unquestionable. He simply wasn't good at doing British accents, and the fact that it wasn't a condition for his being cast was Walt Disney's call, not his.
I thought his accent made the show. Maybe the cockney accent was a bit over the top back in 1910
shareI agree with you, herbsuperb, about Dick's brilliant cameo as Mr Dawes Senior but - please - it's 'shone', not 'shined'.
OK, two points from two different posters taking me to task.
DD - I was not questioning DVD's professionalism overall as I agree that his singing and dancing were of the highest order and indeed hard work and I certainly did not hint otherwise. Nevertheless I still think that to neglect one important part of his performance, for which he was presumably being well paid, in order to concentrate on two others was, well, unprofessional.
herbsuperb - The explanation you seek is that I don't like to see incorrect grammar and that is why I dislike, for example, "He should OF done such and such" which has crept into the language over the past thirty years. If you want to see such well-meant corrections as nitpicking that is up to you. On the particular point you raise I have to say that I have never come across the word "shined" in any other context. Still, you may be right and you're perfectly entitled to disagree with me but I think that to introduce the word "Nazi" into the discussion is something of an over-reaction. Perhaps I could take your last sentence and put it back to you on that point.
"He should OF done such and such"
to introduce the word "Nazi" into the discussion is something of an over-reaction
Perhaps I could take your last sentence and put it back to you on that point.
Well, it's nice to be agreed with on something! However you've lost me on the rest of your post.
As I said, I'm happy to give you some sort of benefit of the doubt on the shined/shone issue though I repeat that "shined" is a new one on me and I suspect on most people. However your apparent argument that my seeking to correct what I simply saw as a grammatical error is in some way fanatical while your use of the emotive and inappropriate term "Nazi" is not is bizarre.
That aside, if you must use the aggressive word "challenge", you challenged me to explain why I had posted as I did - even though you claimed to know in advance - and I gave you an explanation - not something of a one nor a near complete dodge, whatever that means. You don't have to like it or agree with it and you can even call it flimsy if it makes you feel better but please stop pretending that I did not provide one.
I've seen your type many times before. You made a snap judgment because something didn't strike your ear just right, and then brought it to my attention in a very patronizing way. When I told you that you were wrong, you simply couldn't accept it. Now you are are playing the old 'I was wrong, but this guy insulted me and that cannot stand. I have to get out of this looking like I was right somehow' game. Pathetic.
Here is what you, and any other decent person, should have done. You should have taken two minutes to read a bit about the word shined, and how it is used. Then you should have said 'Oh, sorry. I guess I was wrong. Thank you for opening my eyes on this important grammatical topic.' That was a bit sarcastic, but you know exactly what I mean.
Then I would have said. 'I appreciate that. Didn't mean to jump down your throat. Sorry about that'.
But of course you didn't, because you are in that 'I have to be right' group that makes life miserable for the rest of us. Grow up pal. A man admits when he has made a mistake. You didn't, and only tried to turn it back around on me. That's a what a five year old does. The worst thing about it is that you started this whole thing over something that doesn't matter IN THE SLIGHTEST. You still have not adequately explained why it is so important to you that you would create a post pointing out such a ridiculously minute grammatical issue. I don't care about that anymore. Haven't since my first response. My issue now is your attitude. What you should do now, is accept that you made a mistake, and let it lie. But I am certain that now you will do what your type always does, and play the 'I have to have the last word, regardless of whether or not I was right' game.
Well, go ahead. Take your hollow and empty 'victory'.
You obviously have no real understanding of the word "professional", andeven. It does not equal perfection, for instance. It also has nothing to do with whether a person has a talent for something or not. Michael Caine, for instance, would have done the perfect accent for the role of Bert, but no matter how hard he tried (and Caine is a consummate professional) he would not have been capable of the dancing, singing, and quite frankly the "joie de vivre" that Dick van Dyke brought to the role. And by the way, as an American I was well aware of the fact that Caine's "American" accent in THE CIDER HOUSE RULES was shaky at best - but I would never accuse him of being unprofessional for not being able to pull it off, and I was perfectly fine with his winning the Academy Award for the role anyway. In fact, I was delighted.
DVD had a dialect coach that he worked with extensively for the role of Bert in MP, and he still just couldn't get it. Does that mean he was not good with accents? Absolutely. Does that mean that he was in any way "unprofessional"? Of course not! You can say DVD does not do well with accents, but calling him "unprofessional" is an insult that he does not deserve.
The only person who can even possibly deserve the charge of "unprofessional" would be the man who hired DVD for the role of Bert, showing no concern about whether the actor was able to do a competent Cockney accent: Walt Disney. But considering how things worked out for Disney Studios in the case of MARY POPPINS -- WITH Dick van Dyke in the role of Bert -- I would say that charge would sound pretty laughable to any knowledgeable person.
I thought it made Bert even more lovable. :-)
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Thanks DD. Point taken. I had no idea that DVD had had a dialect coach on the film, even though the end result was unsuccessful, and that of course makes a difference. He did not mention it on the Chitty Chitty Bang Bang DVD (sorry for the confusion of initials), stating instead that the singing and dancing aspects took all or at any rate most of his attention to the detriment of his accent and that seemed to me to be something of an excuse. It was that that I took, probably unfairly as you now point out, to be unprofessional and certainly not his overall performance.
I'm less sure about your Michael Caine point. True his accent would have been more or less authentic but, like DVD, he was not a trained singer and dancer so they would have been on equal terms there. Still I have little doubt that DVD carried off the overall role better than would have MC. I have not seen The Cider House Rules but I'll accept that his American accent may well have been dodgy. In fact I suspect that even other English accents would have caused him to struggle - I've never known him to attempt anything but his own South London. And no, I'm not accusing him of being unprofessional because of that......
A grown-up response, andeven. Somewhat unusual on these boards.
shareAnd by the way, Michael Caine did upper-class British accents at least twice that I can think of: in ZULU and BATTLE OF BRITAIN. And he didn't do too badly, IMHO.
shareHello again!
True, Michael Caine did attempt an upper class accent in Zulu. It wasn't bad though he did tend to forget it at times. Still, he tried and, as you say, that is the important thing.
However I have to disagree with you on his accent in Battle of Britain. No way was that upper class and in fairness to him I don't think it was meant to be. By 1940 officers were not being drawn solely from the privileged classes and I think it reasonable to assume that his character (Canfield) was not.
A possibly relevant point: a quote from MC in his biography page on IMDb reads "People always told me 'you can't be an actor, you don't talk posh'. And I said 'I'll show you how to be an actor without talking posh!' And I did it". How serious he was about that and whether he holds the same view now we can only guess.
I suspect this argument to be a case of the old adage:
England and America, two countries separated by a common language.
Using Shined in the context it was used, is pretty common in the U.S.
Shone sounds kind of POSH to my ears.
Test:
"The light on the back porch shined in my window all night, an' I di'nt sleep a wink atall."
"The light from the back shone into my room all evening; it was quite bothersome, indeed."
Both instances use exaggerated dialects of one side of the Atlantic or other.
Either speaker could be accused of making light of the other's way of speaking, depending on who wrote what.
(There's gotta be a better way to have worded that. )
One sounds like it's Southern New Jersey (South Jersey. . . North Jersey sounds way different, ala those "Jersey Shore" peabrains.) You go far enough south, there's parts of Jersey that are below the Mason-Dixon line. Folks deep in the pines definitely have a Southern Twinge (as opposed to a Twang, like real down south).
One could also be described as "Urban / Northeast", as folks in the poorer urban areas, regardless of race, tend to "slur" through consonants at the end of words.
So, England, does my Second Sentence sound at all like the 'English' we think (I think, sorry) is coming from somewhere on the Isle?
I was definitely not going for Cockney, but through many films and tv show, I hear Sentence Two.
Does Any of it make you think, they talk like that in Havershamptonshire or is my whole theory just Bollox?
I'm thinking wealthy city dwellers, Earls & Ladies weekending, am I close to anythine?
BTW, I kept thinking poster mentioning DVDs saying he didn't like accent, someone else mentions DVD has dancing skills, and I keep thinking: What are all these DVDs? How many different DVDs were made of this movie?
Then it hit me: I've got to get some sleep, I'm turning into an idiot!
Peace &Sleep. Jolly Hollidays. Happy Christmas.
To be fair the London accent seems a very hard one for Americans to do, I can't think of any really good ones off the top of my head, Johnny Depp had a decent go in From Hell. Some good performances with suspect accents include Stacy Keach in The Squeeze, DVD in Poppins and Denzel Washington in For Queen And Country. Some out and out misfires include Don Cheadle in Oceans 11 and Brion James in Tango and Cash.
It's not just born and raised Americans who struggle, Irish born Americans have found it difficult like Liam Neeson in The Dead Pool, Colin Farrell in London Boulevard and Pierce Brosnan in The Tailor of Panama. Richard Burton struggled in Villain too, it's just a very hard accent to pull off.
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I am not a better actor then the above mentioned, but when I worked as a stage performer at E.P.C.O.T. Center in the British Pavillion, I used a Cockney accent, & even the Brits did not know that I was born & raised in Mpls. Minn.
No; I did not have a voice coach. I just listened to others & parroted them. I did not think I sounded like true Brit, but people from Britian did. Good enough for me.
"All Games Contain The Concept Of Death"
Some people simply have a better ability to mimic accents than others do. Again, as great of a comic actor and dancer as Dick van Dyke was, he simply didn't have a talent for accents. As he himself has admitted.
shareIt sucked.
It's a bit of a well-known fact it is, that the "Cockney" Dick Van Dyke was "Mockney".
But all things said, DVD, you were great as always and you yourself admitted you weren't the best mimic, so it really WAS a Jolly Holliday..Guvner.
Sarah Silverman Is Magic
Amanda Bynes is hot, Lindsay Lohan is not
I'm from the UK and Dick's accent never bothered me-it is pretty bad and, in his typically charming manner, DVD laughs about it to this day but...in a strange way the dodgy accent works really well because it's so obviously not 'real' so fits in with the magical, fantasy world of the film.
In my opinion DVD was the true star of the film, he was absolutely brilliant as Bert and I cannot imagine any other actor playing that role with the possible exception of Danny Kaye although he would have been around 50 years old at the time.
[deleted]
I'm listening to Peter Noone-a REAL cockney---and his band HERMAN'S HERMITS and one of their big hits - "I'm Henry the 8th". Now, that's a real native accent! (Mary, of course, came out ion the original 1964-65 British invasion.) And yes, even Dick Van Dyke himself admitted that it sucked.
Twitter account:SJCarras
MAGIC=Sarah Silverman.