So Zelda actually had sex with Dino?

Ah, so you want to get metaphysical, do you?

Morality involves conformity to certain rules of right conduct, which certainly encompass virtue in sexual matters. The legal system or basic foundation of any society is founded upon it; its a pretty simple concept to understand. I'm not sure what warped version of reality you live in, but this has always been the case. Moral value judgments such as "murder is immoral" are made. Or in another usage, you could see it as synonomous with ethics or the systematic philosophical study of the moral domain.

If all moral claims are false because they entail that we have reasons to do certain things regardless of our preferences, then so too are hypothetical imperatives (e.g. "if you want to get your hair-cut you ought to go to the barber"). This is because all hypothetical imperatives imply that "we have reason to do that which will enable us to accomplish our ends" and so, like moral claims, they imply that we have reason to do something regardless of our preferences. So if moral claims are false because they have this implication, then so too are hypothetical imperatives. But hypothetical imperatives are naturally true.

To get right down to it, there's nothing inherently wrong with infidelity being depicted on film. But when its treated in such a frivolous and smutty manner, it is to somewhat sugarcoat a very serious topic, as if to fully disregard what a selfish, hurtful, and irresponsible act it is. We see it here as something that can and very well should happen casually, and that to hold it in secret is a virtue as if your spouse doesn't or shouldn't care one way or the other. And unless you wish to fully announce yourself as a sexual libertine, it's a fairly ridiculous notion from any rational perspective almost fully divorced from how relationships work in the real world. I don't think its unfair to propose that occaisonally, perhaps marital infidelity should be treated with the seriousness it deserves (for example, see: Unfaithful, Hannah and Her Sisters, 8 1/2, etc).

You seem to labor under the delusion that there are no holds barred in life, and that anything goes under any circumstances, and there is not a single absolute truth by which a person's life can be guided. Which is not only anarchistic, but extremely egocentric and inconsiderate of others. No one who truly loves their spouse and cares about their feelings could possibly sleep around, the only excuse is that you've become a slave to your appetites and desires as the characters have in this film, and we're somehow supposed to believe they're being noble. Simply put, Wilder's imperative in this film was to break taboos simply for the sake of doing so and without any real artistic purpose, having nothing of significance to say on the subject. Unnaceptable.

nosnojsirhc:

I am from that era (the early 60s) and I agree completely with your thoughtful comments about this film - it was witty, charming and edgy, if not biting about marital fidelity at that time.

I think this is a great Billy Wilder film that was well scripted and well acted (especially by Kim Novak as Polly the Pistol and Ray Walston as the husband).


"Who, being loved, is poor?" (Oscar Wilde)

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"Moral distinctions should be made primarily on reason and intellect, not on passions and desires."

You must be a lot of fun.

I'm not dismissing the virtues of reason or intellect, I am an well educated atheist, clearly reason and intellect lie at my core, but to believe that moral distinctions should be made in the absence of passions and desires is not only foolish, but ultimately futile. Passions and desires are what make life worth living.

Your statements lead me to believe that you are the type of person that won't tell me HOW to live and feel, but how I SHOULD live and feel based upon YOUR moral code and not my own.

Your negative reaction to the ending of this movie and it's rather non-traditional take upon modern (at the time) marriage indicates to me that you are quick to look down upon the characters, not to even attempt to understand or appreciate the actions they undertake. And that's fine, feel anyway you like. Just take care to where you cast stones. Sometimes they get hurled back at you.

I try (and often fail) to appreciate the fact that my life and my experiences are not shared by everyone else, and I know that the way I view marriage and relationships is not mainstream, but I also don't make the assumption that I know what is best for anyone else. I might be able to make some deductions regarding people that I know on an intimate level, but even then I can only hazard guesses. I've got no moral authority over anyone else, and neither do you.

You felt dirty after watching a movie about fictional characters who engaged in extramarital activity, with motives that YOU deemed unsavory. The actions they took left you repulsed and uneasy. I find them a little tragic, misguided and perhaps mean, but not unprecedented or overly malicious. Might those actions and motivations destroy most relationships? Probably. And if that relationship is of primary importance there are three options. 1 - don't do it, 2 - do it and deal with the possible ramifications, 3 - change the rules. Maybe this movie has a different message than the one you think it does. Maybe it's about looking at relationships and finding out what one is after and then making sure that the choices you make match the kind of person you are. Think of it as a cautionary tale, but not in the classic manner. Maybe the message is more along the lines that not everyone fits into the same mold. Or, the mold itself may not work for anyone, at least not the way we think it does. Maybe this movie doesn't even HAVE a message, and is simply relating a story that is closer to the truth than most are comfortable with.

Maybe your post came off as very judgemental and a more than a little bit preachy and I take umbrage with that tone, even if that wasn't your intent.

Dismiss passion and desire. Go ahead. I'll be tempering my passionate actions with caution and discretion, but make no mistake...I'll still embrace desire and passion and let myself be swept up from time to time.

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