MovieChat Forums > Hush...Hush, Sweet Charlotte (1965) Discussion > I Know this sounds strange but...

I Know this sounds strange but...

posted 18 years ago by mit800
28 replies | jump to latest

I`ve always wondered if Velma was written (at the time) for a black actress? Just the way the dialogue is scripted it seems that maybe they were going another way before Agness Moorehead took the part. I hope no one will take this the wrong way but it just seem the way Hollywood USED to portray black persons would have been the way Velma acted in this film. Maybe they decided times wer changing (thankfully) and made her poor white trash instead of another derogatory portrayal of a steriotype (is that redundant?)

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[–] twilightfun 18 years ago

But . . . Velma wasn't dumb. LoL

She had a really down in the boons of the country hill way about er, but she wasn't dumb at all. Instead, she was very observant, and, in all honesty, a loyal friend/servant to Charlotte to boot. It is possible what you two've stated though, about the strong possibility the part MAY HAVE initially been written for a black woman -- just a thought -- as the times weren't quite past blacks still being portrayed in films (definitely the majority) as stereotyped ignorant fools, whether as decent, kind-hearted people or not. Of course, there had been changes made -- look at Sidney Portier, Harry Belafonte and Dorothy Dandridge by that time, for instance. Indeed, the fact the movie would have been too much more like baby Jane is definitely something that could compel the script change, provided there was one. Things that make you go hmmmmm, no?

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[–] moosefeathers 14 years ago

Even though Velma had a good heart, she was white trash, from the other side of the tracks so to speak.

As far as not killing a person because the were black being contreversial, i think at that time it did not matter as it does today. (this story was character driven, so even if velma was black and approached miriam about what she knew, she'd have to be killed to silence her.) As smart and sharp as Velma was I just couldn't believe that she approached Miriam. she should have just highttailed it out of there with the medicine.

Madie Norman who played Elvira in Baby Jane refused to play the maid as a stereotypical black servant, which was a good move on her part on many levels. it brought her right up to Janes level where she could confront her and it gave for good suspense and drama.

[–] 14 years ago

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[–] moosefeathers 14 years ago

the redgrave sisters had so much potential playing for playing these parts. but that movie was one of the worst remakes i have ever seen.

i try not to aknowledge that it even exists.

NOW, a great remake of Baby Janes would have to have Glenn Close (Jane) Meryl Streep (Blanche) and CCH Pounder as Elvira!!! Edmond -- william H. macy or Peter Saarsgard.

yes, we know t his is a Charlotte board, the the subject includes Baby Jane.

[–] onepotato2 15 years ago

Ha ha. I remember thinking the same thing in my teens. Velma is secretly black.
But all the characters slip into low southern accents.

Miriam: (I forget but I just heard a doozie)
Charlotte: "Whut do yew think I assssed yew heer faw? KUHMP nee? Ah thought yew wuh gunnah hepp me"
Drew: "Charlotte she's only tryin to lend a hepping hay-und!"

The latter line (from Cotten) is just ridiculous. He sounds like an old slave sterotype. Cotten floats in and out of his accent.

I think this goes more towards the idea that Hollywood actors don't really know what the hell a southern accent sounds like. And southern accents have been softening in the last 30 years, especially around the larger urban areas. You don't hear hard southern accents in Houston or Austin.

Davis's gutteral low screeching is really not appropriate to the class of her family. A classy, landed family that throws debutante parties for their girls does not have a daughter who sounds like a common streetwhore looking for her drugs. (i.e when she shouting at Standish, her inflections have no class at all)
And of course... "WHUT do yew think I ASSED yew heer faw"

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] joxerthemighty39 15 years ago

>>
Davis's gutteral low screeching is really not appropriate to the class of her family. A classy, landed family that throws debutante parties for their girls does not have a daughter who sounds like a common streetwhore looking for her drugs. (i.e when she shouting at Standish, her inflections have no class at all)
And of course... "WHUT do yew think I ASSED yew heer faw<<

I'm probably really reaching here, but maybe Charlotte sort of picked up a bit of Velma's tones and accent since she's been basically living alone with her for years now and not talking to other people.
Now, you will remember to smile for the camera, won't you? Say "Cheese". ~Ratigan

[–] 15 years ago

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[–] onepotato2 15 years ago

She sees Miriam as the grasping little trashy wench that she really is...
by - jsmmov on Sat Mar 7 2009 12:08:10
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We should all hope to be as trashy as Oliva de Haviland.

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[–] onepotato2 15 years ago

I was chuckling as I typed my remark, which was really a statement about deHaviland's class. not criticism.

Still as far as vile sorry little bitches go, I'd rather be Miriam, than Velma, who really is a vile, sorry human being.

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[–] lastmidnite2 15 years ago

Moorehead even whispers "Miss Charlotte" through the bedroom door, sounding exactly like Butterfly McQueen. I have always felt this was written for a black actress, as was Elvira in Baby Jane. However Elvira had great dignity. Velma may not have been stupid, but she was an uneducated unkempt slob. In 1964, at the hight of the civil rights movement, this would not have flown, and rightly so. The "in" joke, I believe, is that Moorehead is playing black trash, as opposed to white trash, and it's great fun!

[–] mel2000 15 years ago

If Velma was black, in the Deep South, as a plantation mistress Miriam could have had her arrested for sassin' her the way she did in the movie.

[–] jdmartin61 15 years ago

Whew! The many thoughts in this discussion are exhausting! They are all worthy of consideration.

I, too, thought that the character of Velma may have been intended to be black. The character herself was most devoted to Charlotte and had worked for her for many decades ("...ever since before [Miriam] come to this house!"). I would never use the adjective "trash" to describe the character whether she was white or black. Velma was the only one who could truly read Miriam, not because either one was "trash" but because Velma had a keen perception about people, in general. We saw that from the start of the movie ("It'd be the saddest day of your life, Missy, if [Miriam] ever does come!")

Since Henry Farrell created both stories, and since Elvira (played by an African-American actor in the movie) was indeed killed in the novel "What Ever Happened To Baby Jane," perhaps it was decided that it would have been too controversial for Miriam to kill a black "Velma." These are just my thoughts.

John Martin, 48, Texas

[–] Crystal (534) 5 years ago

I think you are confused as to what 'vile' and 'sorry' means.

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