MovieChat Forums > Becket (1964) Discussion > 'My prince' But he's a king?

'My prince' But he's a king?


why does Becket refer to Henry as "my prince"? Henry is a king.

reply

It was common for a king to be called a prince, the terms could be interchangable, and when a king was called a Prince it didn't mean the same thing as a prince being called a prince. Confused well thats royalty and chivalry for you:)

Cry God for Harry, England and St George

reply

Historically, Prince was the term, but not necessarily the title, used for a sovereign ruler. Hence Machiavelli's book "The Prince" referred to a ruler and how the ruler should rule. In modern times with various forms of democratic government there have been few, if any, sovereign rulers. Those few referred to themselves with such terms as Lord Protector, Dictator, Fuhrer, etc. With dynastic monarchies fading in modern times Prince just was not a term used much to describe a sovereign ruler. However it still hangs around as a title, such as for Prince Charles or Prince Harry who are the sons or grandsons of a reigning (but not ruling) Queens or Kings. Also, the use of Prince as a title has been solidified in literature and the movies concerning stories of the charming young Prince (but not yet King) in search of a bride with who he will live happily ever after.

reply

[deleted]

Elizabeth I referred to herself as a prince.


The King's good servant but God's first

reply

I never understood that either but the previous poster to me has the same idea as what i thought, they were friends when he was a prince and just became used to referring him that .....thats my guess....

reply

‘Prince’ comes via Old French from Latin princeps, princip- ‘first, chief, sovereign,’ from primus ‘first’ + capere ‘take.’

So a ‘prince’ was the person who took first place, the principal citizen of a country, nation, province, etc.

Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!Spoilers!

reply

The word Prince, from the Latin princeps has had many meanings.

Did you know it is used to translate two different German words?

In German Prinz means a member of a royal or other high dynasty, the most common English meaning of prince.

In German Furst is a translation of the Latin princeps meaning "first".

A Furst ruled a principality and was the first man in his principality. Collectively the Fursten were the first men in the Kingdom of Germany and the Holy Roman Empire.

To be a Furst one did not have to use the title Furst. A Furst could range from a gefurstliche graf or princely count, up to a landgrave, a margrave, a count palatine, a Furst or prince, a Herzog or duke, and sometimes a Grand Duke or an Archduke.

The movie The Nude bomb featured a fashion designer who was a take off on Diana von Furstenburg, who was married to a German prince. Knowing the meaning of Furst in German makes it a little funnier that the designer is named Edith von Secondburg.

In the early Roman Empire the emperors had many different and separate titles, powers, etc. that combined to make them first in the Empire. Thus an emperor could be called an imperator, a caesar, or an augustus, for example. The title of Prince of the Senate was a largely honorary title used by the emperors, and the period from 27 BC to about 280 AD is often called the Principate as distinct from the later Dominate period.

So during the Prinicipate calling someone a prince was calling him an emperor.

Another meaning of prince is a general word for a ruler, especially a monarch, no matter what his title. Thus one of the parties in a peace treaty might be describe as "that high and mighty prince, King Louis of France", for example.

A famous and rather confusing use of the title prince in Britain is the case of Owain Gwynedd (C. 1100 -1170) King of Gwynedd and King of the Britons from 1137 to 1170.

In Celtic lands it was common to describe a king as king of his stronghold or royal residence instead of king of his country. For example, the High King of all Ireland was often called the King of Tara, and in Wales the King of Gwynedd and King of the Britons was often described as the King of Aberffraw.

Sometime during his reign Owain Gwynedd started to use the title "Prince of Aberffraw and and Lord of Snowdonia". It seems strange that a king would want to claim to be equal to a German Furst. And lord is often used as a very minor and lowly title in the feudal system. But lord is also a very generic term for ruler, and sometimes is used to claim a lot of power, as when Alexander the great used the title Lord of Asia, for example.

The title "Prince of Aberffraw and Lord of Snowdonia" is sometimes interpreted to more or less translate as "King of the Britons and King of Gwynedd". "Prince of Aberffraw" means that Owain Gwynedd was the Prince or First Man among the Kings of the Britons in Wales, and "Lord of Snowdonia" is a generic equivalent of King of Gwynedd.

And since Owain Gwynedd may have claimed to be the successor of Constantine III, the usurping emperor from Britain, he may have been using Prince as an imperial title.

So this discussion of various meanings of the word prince shows that it is not so odd to call a king a prince.


By the way, in those days it was common to address a king as "my lord". It is said that Ricard II (reigned 1377-1399) was the first to be addressed as "your highness".

In 1519 Emperor Charles V began to be addressed as "your majesty". King Francis I of France and other kings soon began to use "majesty". In England "majesty", "highness" and "grace" were all used until King James I (1603-1625) made "majesty" the only way to address an English king.










reply