Star Wars relation - 633 Squadron (1964) Discussion

[–] The_Khazi 19 years ago

I must admit there is a similarity when you think about it.Lucas has stated that he was inspired by ww2 dogfights & used some actual war footage in a test screening as the effects were not finished at the time.

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[–] marathon_man 18 years ago

George Lucas has stated in interviews that this sequence inspired the Death Stat trench run.

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[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] mp-ontario 18 years ago

I thought "The Dam Busters (1954)" inspired the Death Star trench run. I believe Lucas even lifted a quote directly from the movie ("How many guns..."). I could be wrong though.

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[–] Kimball-Kinnison 18 years ago

Yes, "Dam Busters" was more than an influence on Star Wars. I've watched DB quite a few times, and gasped the first time I heard the stolen line and visual sequences Lucas also stole.

The line "How many guns do you think, Trevor" (I think that's his name) With the reply of "I'd say about 10 guns, some in the field and some on the tower" is almost verbatim to the line in Star Wars- "How many guns, Gold Five?" "I'd say about 20 guns, some on the surface and some on the tower."

It's virtually plagiarism...

Congratulations on the Earth... Bill and I enjoy it on a daily basis.

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[–] nba-2 18 years ago

It's even close than that! The lines from Star Wars are:-
Gold Leader "How many guns do you think Gold Five?"
Gold Five "I'd say about 20 guns; some on the surface, some on the tower"

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[–] s1lenze 16 years ago

"It's virtually plagiarism... "

...But it's not!

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[–] jejozi 11 years ago

He was sampling. lol

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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[–] Hippo9 9 years ago

"There are only 5 stories in all of humanity. So we are all just copying each other" in George Lucas voice.

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[–] pjmcgill142 8 years ago

maybe 7...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Seven_Basic_Plots
but surely it's an homage...

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[–] markrobi 17 years ago

Also quoted is the attack scene from "The Bridges at Toko-Ri". Even with the use of models the effects are very much more realistic. Wonder why the Brits couldn't do the same (?)

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[–] macliggett1 17 years ago

Not only this film but, Dam Busters and Battle of Britain and that's just the Death Star battle sequences. The rest of the film is rife with bits & bobs from just about every other film ever made but, that's OK, it's still a good flim.

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[–] Filmophiliac 18 years ago

Lucas was indeed inspired by many WWII flicks, although he mentioned 633 Squadron by name in at least one interview.

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[–] Adam Frisch 18 years ago

Listen to the main theme from the film by Ron Goodwin and compare to John Williams score - some striking similarities. So I'm pretty sure it had some influence.

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[–] Anscules 18 years ago

my dad was convinced the main theme of star wars was the main theme of lawrence of arabia played backwards. i have never investigated this.

"Rampart: Squad 51."

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[–] Hotta 17 years ago

my dad was convinced the main theme of star wars was the main theme of lawrence of arabia played backwards. i have never investigated this
----------------

This is untrue. I have played a copy of the Lawrence of Arabia theme backwards and it sounds nothing like Star Wars

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[–] artdelong 17 years ago

It may of course not sound anything like Star Wars played backwards, but the Lawrence theme and Star Wars Main title do sound like mirror images of each other, IMO.

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[–] combatreview 17 years ago

The music for Star Wars is derived primarily from the style of the Golden Age film soundtracks - to me the most obvious influence is E.W. Korngold, who wrote music for films like Robin Hood and The Sea Hawk.

Though the Dam Busters is the most striking influence for the Death Star Raid, 633 Squadron is pretty much an identical scenario - the pilots even have to fly down a narrow fjord to make a precise hit on a small target, just like the trench in star wars. I don't personally object to this kind of theft because it's so well-executed that it comes off more of a tribute to the original than an insult.

But then, if you go looking closely at Star Wars you'll find it's full of all sorts of 'inspiration'...

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[–] 17 years ago

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[–] macliggett1 16 years ago

I agree that this kind of theft (more acurately termed as inspiration) is OK. The computers that controlled the cameras for the model shots of the space ships in flight, were programmed using these films (Battle of Britain, 633 Squadron and Dambusters) to give the models a more natural illusion of flight. All movie score writers "borrow" from the past, Williams from Korngold, Korngold from Bach or some other classical composer.

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[–] igregward 16 years ago

Actually the term is: an "homage".

As a writer, you do that as a nod to who inspired you, and it especially gets notice when you use lines verbatim from the original source/s that got you writing or creating (movies, t.v., production, other) in general.

Stealing (or "plagiarism") would be making the same movie and naming it something different (or even keeping the same title) and then selling it and saying that it's yours. Among other ways.

People know when they are being paid homage to. And they appreciate it because it is out of respect for them and their work. Is L. Frank Baum rolling in his grave over The Wiz or Tin Man?

Probably not.

To the ones getting angry or just posting about people stealing or copying work: The Creative don't have time to snivel and don't ask you to snivel for them either. Especially over that which is not snivel-worthy (even if they had the time to and it was something, over which, they would).

Get some grips. 'Cos it seems like some of you need more than one.

-----
"Now shut up you fool and hold me like you did by the lake in Naboo!" -- james_mongold-1

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[–] combatreview 16 years ago

>>>Actually the term is: an "homage".

As in 'The Great Train Homage'

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[–] LarryBrownHouston 14 years ago

Squeeth: The fact that you think that Spielberg had anything to do with Star Wars shows exactly how much you know about those movies. Nothing.
(FYI: Spielberg was not involved with any of the Star Wars films).

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[–] andrewwjohnson 12 years ago

.......George Lucas edited scenes from "633 Squadron", "Dam Busters" and other World War Two movies together in order to work out the special effects for the death star attack sequence. The test footage was run on a making of documentary, some years ago and looked strange; scenes from inside the Millenium Falcon inter-cut with World War Two air combat footage.
TAG LINE: True genius is a beautiful thing, but ignorance is ugly to the bone.

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[–] dln1700 12 years ago

The music for Star Wars is derived primarily from the style of the Golden Age film soundtracks - to me the most obvious influence is E.W. Korngold, who wrote music for films like Robin Hood and The Sea Hawk.

Also, listen to Gustav Holst' Mars from The Planets and you'll hear where Williams got the music for the Star Destroyer passing overhead chasing the Princess at the start of Star Wars.

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[–] naseby 16 years ago

How? Was Grant meant to be Han solo in the Mellenium falcon - or is it the fact of flying down the Death Star methinks! Perhaps Angus Lennie (Hopgood) was meant to be R2D2!

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[–] combatreview 16 years ago

Are you confusing the idea of borrowing something with exactly replicating it?

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[–] Glucojel 16 years ago

I'm pretty sure the trench run was lifted more from 633 than the Dambusters- especially after seeing this comparison:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU&feature=related

Have a look- I'll bet you'll get a kick out of it!

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[–] tommyuk 16 years ago

Star Wars Muppets in Space

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[–] markwilliams1701 15 years ago

I'm sure he did!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OZq-tlJTrU

633 with Starwars sound and dialogue

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[–] jejozi 11 years ago

As soon as the went over the plan I thought of the Star Wars trench run, as I've made that flight many, many times. ;-)

This will be the high point of my day; it's all downhill from here.

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