MovieChat Forums > Tengoku to jigoku (1963) Discussion > I didn't like it ....(but i'm a huge kur...

I didn't like it ....(but i'm a huge kurosawa fan)

posted 17 years ago by Niide
15 replies | jump to latest

first of all i'm a huge kurosawa fan especially of rashomon, 7 Samurai, red beard and the bad sleep well
but three kurosawa movies i didn't like it's ran, kagemusha and this one and i don't know exactly why...
i thought the story was kind of boring, the acting was good but not as good as in the one mentionned above and the character developpment bothered me.
did anyone agree that this movie (and ran and kagemusha) is not as good as the others??
which of his movies don't you like?

[–] Trouter2000 17 years ago

He's never made a bad film, I can appreciate any of his films that I have had the pleasure of viewing.
Ran was amazing, I don't understand how you did not like it, while at the same time enjoying many of Kurosawa's other pictures.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Trouter2000 17 years ago

18 sure is impressive, I've only had the chance to view nine, all of which I loved. I must agree with you though, the collaboration of Mifune and Kurosawa brought out the best work either has done. Ran is the exception I think, even without Mifune it is one of the director's greatest achievements.

I haven't gotten around to seeing Kagemusha, can you tell me its pros and cons?

[–] Niide 17 years ago

I've seen 14 so far, but after your posts i'll give high and low another chance, maybe i was just in a wrong mood for this movie.
because i absolutely love the bad sleep well, one of the best film noir movie ever.
kagemusha pro:- directing good but not as brillant as used to
- tatsuya nakadai
contra :- story to thin for a 3h movie
- i thought it was sometimes a little bit confusing with all the japanese name, at the time i wasn't used to hear them
- no mifune

[–] evildead167 17 years ago

I was dissapointed in Tengoku to jigoku. I was highly involved in the first half involving Mr. Gondo. But I found the police procedural second half dull. For me the movie ended when [SPOILERS] the young boy was brought back safely, running into Gondo's arms. The main character's arch was finished in that moment.

[–] UCHoodman 17 years ago

I've seen 6 and my least favorite is also High and Low, I've seen better by Nakadai(Yojimbo) and I agree the second half is kind of dull until you get near the end w/ the good music in the bar/club and the acting performance of the criminal.
I dunno how you could not like Ran though, it's far more modern in terms of how well one can relate to a Kurosawa film.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] maggotfarmer 17 years ago

Wow, I've seen I think 17 or 18 of his movies and this is my favorite!

[–] maggotfarmer 17 years ago

Wow, I've seen I think 17 or 18 of his movies and this is my favorite!

[–] AlanSquier 17 years ago

Well, pals, Kurosawa is best known for his swashbuckling samurai classics. However, High and Low is a film noir set in contemporary Japan and presents a less well-known side of his director's work, and therefore it seems quite naural to me that his admirers might not count this as one of his best. As for me, I find it both a riveting thriller and a brilliant commentary on contemporary Japanese society.

"What's the most you ever lost in a coin toss?"

[–] jmail-25 16 years ago

It's been a while but I really enjoyed this flick. It's probably my fave AK film (although I've only seen 4). *SPOILERS* I'll always remember the scene when they found the dead junkies, the noise of the crickets in the background sent shivers down my spine.

[–] cinema_forever19 16 years ago

I've only seen 4; Sanjuro, Kagemusha, Rashomon and Seven Samurai, and I pretty much like all four. I'm looking at High and Low to be my next Kurosawa. And if I like it, I'll check out Stray Dog. Then eventually; Yojimbo and Ran.

[–] lucazade22 11 years ago

High and Low and Ran are my favourite Kurosawa films!

[–] molypocho 9 years ago

I also love Seven Samurai and Red Beard, and I agree with you when you say that this movie and Ran are comparatively inferior. Your vague concern with the character development resembles my issues with the film. For me it felt like Kurosawa wasn't interested Kingo Gondo, the salesman who risks his fortune to save the kid. All he gets to do is stand around, grimace and talk in a rough voice. It's like his honor minimizes his personality. If I were making a similar movie, I would have taken a different path: what about the millionaire who flouts public opinion and lets the kid die? What happens to him? That's the character study I want to see. Instead, because Kingo Gondo's struggles are dull, he gets jettisoned in favor of a pretty standard police procedural flick during the second half. And I ended up enjoying this stuff more. Why? More screen time for the kidnapper, who obviously piqued Kurosawa's interest. The scenes featuring society's underbelly, the dancing in the bar and the junkie's strewn throughout the rubble, were extraordinary. And that glowing reflection in the criminal's shades, so glad I didn't miss it.

My rating: 7

[–] Kawada_Kira (7269) 6 years ago

Instead, because Kingo Gondo's struggles are dull, he gets jettisoned in favor of a pretty standard police procedural flick during the second half. And I ended up enjoying this stuff more. Why? More screen time for the kidnapper, who obviously piqued Kurosawa's interest. The scenes featuring society's underbelly, the dancing in the bar and the junkie's strewn throughout the rubble, were extraordinary.

I don't think it's because Gondo is dull; I think it's because this was meant to be the focus of the movie all along. Gondo is only part of the story. The movie is an examination of the social situation in Japan. Inequality, class antagonism, the difference between the opulence of the bourgeoisie like Gondo and the misery happening just outside his rich and comfortable home. These are all equal parts of the same story. If you look at Gondo's house on the hill, it looks just like a feudal manor overshadowing a peasant village, only in a more modern setting. Takeuchi went after Gondo because he hated him for that, for living so well while his working-class self was stuck in that crummy miserable apartment, having to look at that house out the window every day. Gondo did end up finding his humanity, but he lost his wealth, power and class position because of it. There's no room for humanity among the rich.