MovieChat Forums > Nattvardsgästerna (1963) Discussion > Bergman's own words

Bergman's own words

posted 18 years ago by delach
9 replies | jump to latest

This is just in response to debbylyst's December 14 posting in the reviews section, what Bergman said was "I showed the film to my wife at that time (Käbi Laretei), and she said: 'Yes, Ingmar, it's a masterpiece; but it's a dreary masterpiece.' There's some truth in that; but the importance of the dreary in art mustn't be underestimated." So the key word was "dreary" rather than "boring." I think Bergman actually took pride in this comment because he felt he'd made an uncompromising film. While it's true that the pastor is pretty unsympathetic, he's very human - "warts and all." I don't believe that Bergman despises him - there must be something of himself in the character, in terms of the crisis of faith; and in the "making of" documentary by Vilgot Sjöman, Bergman expressed surprise that the audience found him so unlikable. Bergman clearly still holds a deep affection for the film - in 1997, he used some of the characters from "Winter Light" as the townsfolk in "In the Presence of a Clown." For the record, this is what he said about "Winter Light" in the 2003 video introduction made for Swedish television.

MARIE NYRERÖD: You're often harsh when speaking of your own movies.

INGMAR BERGMAN: You think so?

NYRERÖD: But one film that you always mention with tenderness is "Winter Light." Why is it so important to you?

BERGMAN: Well, there are many aspects to it. Working in this profession of butchers and whores, you develop this great need to please people. You keep wishing your movies will be successful, that this strenuous effort you put into making a film...this Sisyphean task - you want people to approve of it, and you want houses to be sold out. Well, I was a bit tormented by all that. I felt I was being ingratiating. And so I thought to myself, "I'm not going to worry about it. I'm not going to worry about being ingratiating. I will write strictly about the problems that occupy me. Not for a moment, not for a minute, do I want the story to be ingratiating. I'll tell the story exactly and precisely the way I envisioned it." We maintained this very strict form. Which meant that all the light...would be this grayish, shadowless light. November light. Sven and I went up to Dalarna, to a church in Skattungbyn, where we sat from morning till night taking notes. Sven took pictures the whole time of how the light moved through the church. He then invented something that had never existed before, a kind of lamp that could provide a shadowless light. I'm very fond of this movie. I think in a way this is the movie that is closest to me. Because for once I made a film that I consider a brave film.

[–] debblyst 18 years ago

Thanks a lot, seenayfile, for your great comment. It's good to know about Bergman's statement above. It's clear "Winter Light" is a totally uncompromising film, and in the interviews he gave about it published in "Le Cinéma Selon Bergman" (1973) it was clear how personal the theme was for him and how interested in the lighting process he was.
I'd just like to add that in my copy of the interview, in a Portuguese translation, when he refers to his ex-wife comment about the film, the word used is precisely "chato" (unequivocally "boring"), not a word equivalent to "dreary", though it can be a traduttore/tradittore case, of course. It would be nice to find the exact Swedish word his ex-wife actually used (and find someone to translate it properly, naturally!!).

debblyst

[–] Strausszek 18 years ago

In Swedish she said, according to Bergman at least, "ett tråkigt mästerverk", normally translating as "a boring masterpiece". Spoken from one artist to another I think one may detect a touch of irony in the words, so the meaning really could include both "dreary", "unyielding" and "boring". It is an austere movie and it would be hard to imagine it unfolding in the surroundings of a Southern renaissance cathedral.

Another comment, also quoted by Bergman, came from a U.S. film distributor who asked him "with a groan", "Ingmar, why don't you move your camera anaymore?"

It's nice to hear from your review that this interview book, "Bergman om Bergman" in the original, made it into other languages. I've known it for years and it sheds light on any of his films up to 1970, not the least you get to understand his close relation to the technical aspects of film-making. By the time he had his international breakthrough in the late fifties he was a very experienced director - this is an important aspect of his close collaboration with Sven Nykvist in shaping his artistic visions.

[–] debblyst 18 years ago

Tack så mycket, Strausszek, for the information -- it's good to know that my Brazilian edition of the book, translated all the way from Swedish to French to Portuguese, was still accurate with the original Bergman comment about his ex-wife's comment (that's METAlinguistics! :))

As for books published in Brazil about Bergman, I must say there was a time -- roughly from the early 70s to the early 80s -- when Bergman was not only a critical success, but a commercial one too, at least in big cities like Rio de Janeiro (where I live) and São Paulo. Just for the record, "Scenes of a Marriage" stayed in theaters for 8 straight months in Rio -- I still remember thinking "wow"!! I've seen maybe 90% of all Bergman's films up to 1984 right here in Rio, even his earliest ones which were shown regularly at the Cinemathèque of Rio's Modern Museum of Art. I've got the Brazilian editions of at least a dozen of Bergman's scripts, from "Såsom i en Spegel" to "Ur Marionetternas Liv", besides loose interviews with him in Brazilian film magazines.
Unfortunately, things have changed a lot since then -- most of his films after "Fanny and Alexander" were shown here only in film festivals, which I cannot always attend, and not in the commercial circuit. I would really love to see "Sarabande" - do you know if there'a DVD release of that one, internationally?
Hej då!

[–] Strausszek 18 years ago

I've studied linguistics too, so I'm aware of the complexities of translation. I do recall a journalist in a paper here, who had seen a Bergman parody at a cabaret in New York and added "I haven't laughed like that since I saw "Scenes from a marriage" dubbed into hindi." Movies (except animation for kids) are never dubbed in Sweden, and I'm grateful for that.

It sounds really incredible that "Fängelse", "Sommarlek" or "Ansiktet" have been shown regularly at the Rio Cinematheque. :-)
"Sarabande" is just coming out on dvd on Amazon, since it's Amazon.com (and not co.uk) I guess that means it's a US dvd but the page says nothing precise about regions. Brazil is region 4 so it wouldn't run there (unless you have a U.S. imported set or have broken the region lock). And there's a Swedish DVD that appeared a few years ago, but without subs. I haven't seen neither "Sarabande" nor "Faithless" myself but a fair number of other Bergmans on tv and in the cinema. He's certainly a cultural icon and a very great artist.
Lycka till!

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] debblyst 18 years ago

Well, I'm not in linguistics, I'm a musician myself (another form of linguistics anyway!), but dubbing always sounds weird for me (maybe because I'm into sounds as a musician!!). In Brazil, TV foreign movies are dubbed into Portuguese, but in theatres movies are always screened with subtitles (except for animation for kids, like you said about Sweden). I never understood American audiences who complain how difficult it is to watch a film with subtitles.

I'll look for Sarabande in Amazon, thanks. My DVD player is multi-region.

And today, who are the interesting Swedish filmmakers? Here in Brazil we seldom get the chance to see anything, except some films by LUkas Moodysson and Colin Nutley, nothing really remarkable, and "Ondskan", by Mikael Håfström. What's happening over there, what are the good films/filmmakers to look for?

[–] 18 years ago

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[–] debblyst 18 years ago

Hi Nicolas
SSBuonanotte was released in VHS in Brazil in the late 80s by Cinematográfica J.F. (if I'm not mistaken). No DVD or laserdisc that I heard of.
I don't own myself a copy, but it's not hard to find one in RIo's good VHS/DVD rental stores. Italians films used to be very popular in Brazil until the 1980s, much less so now.
It shouldn't be hard to find a copy in Italian VHS/DVD sites, though (I hope!).
Good luck!

[–] Lemoen 14 years ago

Interesting, thanks for sharing.

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