MovieChat Forums > Nattvardsgästerna (1963) Discussion > Why did he ask her to come with him?

Why did he ask her to come with him?

posted 16 years ago by simplypm2004
10 replies | jump to latest

Even more strange, is why was she compelled to go? It struck me as a turning point in the film. Tomas levels Märta in as complete and irreversible a fashion as imaginable - and then, then he then asks her to come with him! She demurs. He almost insists and she accepts his invitation as the only possible eventuality!?! Is this not one of the most paradoxical of developments? What do folks think about all this? I would like to explore the dialogue around this transition in their relationship.

(PRN) – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=id-bFpYQzXE

[–] stangoldsmith 16 years ago

He needs her, she is the only one who believes in his crap = his reason for existence.

The ramp up he gives her in the classroom is funny, he berates her physicality and then something else and then finally is like, you know the 'real' reason? Because I love my wife, not you, and when she died I died.

The only problem is that he didn't die.

That's a clue I think, he's working out his own feelings about the death of his wife and his own mortality. The schoolteacher provides him with the opportunity to work these things out like nobody else because she doesn't go off and commit suicide or leave church.

[–] mothboy88 16 years ago

and in a way her own faith in him is a parallel with the pastor's faith in God-

God has forsaken him, but he continues the service anyway, hoping for a connection that very well may never come-

the fact that the pastor offered the schoolteacher to come to the service with him suggests that there is still hope for love- not only between these two people, but between God and man

[–] Kammurabi 14 years ago

^ I felt he was her god as well. At least a surrogate. Something that fills certain needs that god fills for the devout.

But the inability to completely sever her from his life is a very real thing in relationships, no matter who or where you are. It can be difficult to completely remove someone from your life who has become an intimate part of it. Two people who know things about each other that virtually no one else knows. The knowledge of this knowledge. He can't just walk out of her life completely.
And she adores him, so she'll never close the door on him.

Two people can hurt each other badly with words intended to hurt, yet still love each other. I believe he is over his wife's death far more than he says he is, yet this is an effective weapon to abuse Marta with.
Stubborn, tormented. Very human. Bergman always does this sort of thing well.

.

[–] Hythlodaeus 12 years ago

You're right but what you describe here is completely selfish and almost vampirish.

What hump?

[–] konam 12 years ago

My 2 cents:

The priest has stuggled with his faith in god for a long time, but the coming of his wife gave him the support he needed to go on. When his wife died, not only he died too (as he says in the movie), but his faith also died. So, what is a priest without faith suposed to do? He is lost. He is angry and he'll try and make everybody getting too close to him go away.

At the same time, he knows that he needs the schoolteacher or he'll go crazy. She is the only thing preventing him to go berserk. When she mentions that, he gets really angry. So, he delivers all that talk which, as someone here pointed out, is more the anger towards his situation than personally against the teacher and then goes back and invite her to go with him. Its more of a situation of "Bad with her, worse without her".

And her, well, she just loves him. And she'll do anything to be with him.

------------
- He moves his lips when he reads. What does that tell you about him?

[–] kenny-164 12 years ago

A couple of points.

First, the priest acts as he does in his tirade against the schoolteacher in part because he resents that she is all he has, all that prevents him from some equivalent decline or even catastrophe. On a practical level, unless and until he finds something else, anything else, in life, she is all he has. That this is a sufficient motivation think is clear, but it also explains why he engaged in that tirade. Yes it is quite possible the same man would say all those awful things and still want her to be there.

Death of spouse. Yes, all indications are that this is one of the most wrenching events anyone would be confronted with. But of course that such things happen is hardly proof of God's non-existence. God and religion do not say or teach that bad things do not happen here on Earth. This is not Heaven, and is far from perfect. The priest may have felt abandoned, and literally his wife in dying left him alone, and behind in a world made virtually empty to him. But while we can understand his feelings, that perception on his part does not prove or disprove anything.

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] 12 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Henry_Framus_Valentine 11 years ago

It had occurred to me that the confrontation in the classroom was not the first time for Tomas and Märta; that they have been through it all before. I perceived this as soon as he asked her to come with him and she readily accepted. They seemed to be acting as if they were accustomed to having such vicious rows.

Promise her anything, but give her a Pez!

[–] kenny-164 11 years ago

Nice observation, Mickey. It would make sense, since as I noted above there is an element of conflict inherent in their relationship that reflects his resentment at "having" to depend on her.

Of course if he were more self aware, or saw and felt about the matter differently, he might be grateful to her for what she brings to their relationship and to him. but he is not.

Perhaps his anger reflects a recognition that the need in large part is to fill an increasingly large hole being left by his diminishing faith in God, knowing it is an inadequate substitute.