ralph or jack?


are we supposed to sympathize with ralph? because i always took jack's side. they need meat!

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You're an idiot. Jack's a murderer.

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hahah

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Troll?

So far I only read the book, but I'm totally on Ralphs side. At the beginning I was able to have some sympathy for Jack, but the poor boy went terribly downhill. Surely I'm not the only one who wonders how the lived after getting back to civilisation...

You can live without meat, btw, if you've got enough other options for food.

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I'm sorry, but I hated Jack soooo much in the film... that accent + attitude just made me want to punch him in the face.

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I felt the same way. I HATED how Jack was portrayed in the movie. He sounded like a whiny, 5 year old British girl!

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They do need meat,yes,but they also need a leader with compassion.jack was about near ready to kill a littlun in like..the third chapter of the book.
they needed to work together,but jacks pride was hurt. ralph is just..i like him better,he seems so nice,he tries,hes a good leader,simons death hits him HARD!

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I'd prefer Ralph over Jack.

Welcome to my Nightmare- Freddy Krueger

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Jack panders to the interests of the id; meat, dancing, war-paint. Short-term solutions.

Ralph thinks ahead to the necessity of being rescued and because the boys are young and id-driven and find it hard to resist the call of instantaneous satisfaction, they follow Jack. The boys do attempt to be responsible; they start building shelters, but eventually run off to play and frolick.

We are meant to sympathise with Ralph in the novel but I think the film makes Jack much more charismatic, attractive and a far more vulnerable figure.

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i completely agree. i always felt like ralph and piggy were kind of p*ssies. especially piggy, i always hated him. but yea, i was always more interested and connected with jack more. he took control of the situation. he became a provider. he may not have been the nicest one on the island, but if he was, he would be like ralph and no one would listen to him.

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If ever Jack was wise like Ralph and Piggy, he would never lead a gank of children to become small savages. Yes he hunts, but he could also ask some to keep the fire going, and some to hunt. he's dictator, thinks like Hitler.

Ralph by millions.

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I would have chosen Ralph over Jack, but mostly I would have preferred Piggy. As Piggy had the best sense of logic.

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piggy and ralph are weaks and wanted to recreate the same flawed society they swallowed in their bourgeois life.
Jack became ubermenschen, and was leading a revolution.

piggy and ralph are weak, you can see how ralph is so happy to see the Adult at the end, see his master and take his slave position back.

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Taken right out of the Ten-Year-Old's Guide to Marxism.

One has to have a few screws quite loose to see this film as some sort of class struggle of the proletariat.

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It's possible. At the beginning of the movie, Jack's group are all dressed as choirboys and when they're laughed at he explains it's their uniforms which tell me they're a bunch a rich private school types and Jack comes off like the uppity Draco Malfoy. The initial group had caps and were dressed less formally which tells me they're probabaly just public school kids so I think it's certainly possible to examine class relations in LoTF.
As for Ralph or Jack, I'd go with Ralph but only as the lesser of two evils. I never forgave him for selling out Piggy by telling them his "name" (we never know what it really is) no more than 15 minutes after Piggy expressly told him not to just so he can get some of the boys on his side and get elected leader.
Indeed, all 3 can be considered as different types of poiliticians: Jack the Provider and Defender, man-of-action without thinking. Ralph who is Mr. Earnest in public but privately can betray you and Piggy the soft, gatherer-type. All three are very flawed and LoTF, I think, shows this in a scary way.


Jamie Lee Curtis survived Halloween,a Fog, Prom Night and Terror Train & now she can't poop!

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I just viewed Ralph as right in the long-term but lacking force enough to make people see that future, Jack as doing what seems right for short term and a might is right type. Piggy of course is the pig in the middle. If Ralph had Jack's strength they would have been okay

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Actually in his denigration of "bourgeois" society and the need for a "super man" to lead a revolution, nycterr's post is more Nazi than Marxist.

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Smokehill Retrievers' post was taken right out of the Ten-Year-Old's Guide to Political Philosophies.

"I don't deduce, I observe."

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:P

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nycterr, I sense a troll. LOL

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

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"i was always more interested and connected with jack more. he took control of the situation. he became a provider" <---A VERY short term provider. LOL

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Anyone who says they like Jack more is either a troll or the same people who think Hitler was a good leader. Jack was horrible how would you like it if you were hunted down and murdered. Jack and Roger were horrible people who should have gone to prison for the rest of their lives. Ralph was decent but Piggy was the smartest of all he would have created a strong united group if it weren't for Jack and Ralph. I do like Ralph more than Jack but he was not a sweetheart either. He introduced the name Piggy even though he said he didn't want to be called that. Ralph is the reason people made fun of him, Ralph started it and introduced the hatred of Piggy to the group. Jack just took it 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 steps further and became a savage beast of a child who has no right in society.

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[deleted]

Do we always have to jump to Hitler?

"Damaged people are dangerous, they know they can survive."

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Well, if the jackboot fits....

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From the very beginning Ralph was the one that united the 1st set of kids. When Ralph came with his crew (which I though where girls), they already showed a sense of "We are better then you" even before they opened their mouth.

Jack reminds me of Harry Potters Rival. I cant remember his name, but he just hated his a$$ of rip, and focked with anyone who was around him

Need Meat? No. Meat is not a necessity to life. They showed many fruits on the trees and even stated that. I believe as a kid, I would try to eat fruits before I would try and kill a pig.

Jack wanted to be a live action Peter Pan. For no reason at all, but for his owns kicks, he put out main fires. He stole fires from the other kids for no reason at all, but just wanted to raid them and destroy their stuff. He even kidnapped and actually beat the kids. They had no idea what was going on!

The this that sticks with me most is when Jack saw the Captain and his face was like "I'm screwed"
He was, is, has, and always will be a shady mufuga

Its like Ralph was actually trying to be the parent to the rebellious Jack. They killed 1 kid out of spite and the other as a Joke! I cant be on his crew


Today was once Tomorrow and will soon be Yesterday

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(When Ralph came with his crew (which I though where girls), they already showed a sense of "We are better then you" even before they opened their mouth.) <---Bitter Breakup?

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