I came across this web site that has a coherent idea of what the six hour version was like, with missing dialog, missing scene stills, etc. it's very well done.
elizabethtaylorthelegend.com/Elizabeth Taylor - Restored Cleopatra page 01.html
Its nothing really new on here in terms of news we haven't heard about in regards to Cleopatra OP.
If anything it was that page which is/was the cause of many ongoing debates and threads being made on here to this very day. As to what the real uncut true story of the film was originally supposed to be like!
I.e. this website....
The Restored Cleopatra
http://taylortribute.com/Elizabeth%20Taylor%20-%20Restored%20Cleopatra %20Main%20Page.html
Think the majority of Cleopatra film fans know of this site. Yes its truly wonderful and i should give the owner a buzz asking him for those pictures of the cut footage and anymore stuff they initially didn't put up on the site (Rufio's suicide/death scene pic in HD for example?). As i wonder if they'll be interested in putting out a DVD which covers the movie like a moving documentary or trivia pieces showcasing the original film and all its contents in the appropriate order or events.
Much akin to the fan made film documentaries which have popped up over the years which highlight movies like; Deleted Magic (Star Wars), Star Wars Begins (Star Wars) Building Empire (The Empire Strikes Back), Returning To Jedi (Return Of The Jedi), Inside Jaws (Jaws), Raiding the Lost Ark (Raiders Of The Lost Ark).
Fan made documentaries of films
http://www.fanedit.org/ifdb/jreviews/search-results?cat=85&keyword s=raiding+the+lost+ark
Because of that site i've always wondered to myself about creating an in-depth behind-the-scenes look or examination at Cleopatra. if the film's original script along with those rare pictures, [the deleted third 'Taylor' scene clip seen on the 2 hour;"Cleopatra: The Film That Changed Hollywood"] and the classic film scenes from the existing movie were all edited together with descriptions and text as to say where everything belonged. And such an endeavor took a closer look at the real storyline from beginning to end as Joseph Mankiewicz always intended.
Thank you reminding me, as i'm sure i along with posters on here have always asked this of that site and 20th Century Fox. If they haven't got the film's old negatives at least create a DVD like this, which covers what was shot and was intended to be seen in the completed story of Cleopatra!
ST4
Name's Django, The D is silent.
Here are just a few random thoughts, which I believe should be taken into account. I don't believe that much of the nitpicking about "Cleopatra" is warranted. This film is not meant to be critiqued after having been watched on a television, no matter what size the screen. The same can be said of small screen multiplexes, or neighborhood theaters. "Cleopatra" was meant to be viewed on a large TODD AO screen. Even the Road Show version, with its lack of continuity, the dialog which Zanuck refused to let Ms. Taylor loop gratis, etc., all seem minor when seeing Rome and Alexandria on that TODD AO screen. Much of JLM's dialog is well written, and plays after fifty years. Some say the pacing is slow. Watching it in Todd AO, John DeCuir's brilliant production design doesn't allow for anything to seem slow.
I find most of the epic films, which many revere, have not held up like "Cleopatra." All of CB DeMille's epics play like high camp now. Non-DeMille "Ben Hur" with all of its awards, had no longevity, now only a watchable chariot race an unplayable script, and much boredom. People pick on the sea battle in "Cleopatra," yet the miniatures during the sea battle in "Ben Hur" are laughable.
If possible, see the "Cleopatra" Road Show version, a Todd AO screening at a festival or revival, and you will forgive Zanuck's lack of foresight, and get lost in the wonder of JLM's film.
I disagree on your criteria on BEN-HUR, but let's let that subject lie here. We CLEOPATRA fans have to stick together.
shareHey, i'm with ya fully OP in enjoying the film's beautiful picture quality. And so glad i got the Blu-ray of the movie with its glorious colourful remastered picture in 1080p HD.
But yeah, unless in a cinema playing an older copy of the movie. The large TODD AO screen look your going for is only going to come from a; "laserdisc" version of the film or an old cinema re-showing of the movie in a small independent cinema replaying the whole thing etc.
I find most of the epic films, which many revere, have not held up like "Cleopatra." All of CB DeMille's epics play like high camp now. Non-DeMille "Ben Hur" with all of its awards, had no longevity, now only a watchable chariot race an unplayable script, and much boredom.
Sorry but i disagree with that whole statement.
I myself enjoy a ton out of the older classic films like; Ben Hur and others. Spartacus for example has a poorly done; Blu-ray version of its film print a couple of years ago. Which came out overly saturated with too much colour for example. Now if you were talking about that i could forgive you, but don't lamb-blast old classics i belove with a poor excuse as to what's supposedly wrong with them for a technical standpoint you seem to implying here with the miniatures in a comparison with; Ben Hur. Cleopatra is an Oscar winning movie that got several Oscars for its (at the time) ground breaking effects and costuming) but Ben hur also got those same awards as well much earlier however.
O.K. then now i've gotten your point!
ST4
Name's Django, The D is silent.
Why does it have to be seen on TODD AO?? I have seen many classic films on tv in the worst possible quality, with color prints that are so faded they might as well be in black and white, and I still was mesmerized by the movies because they were so good.
cLEOPATra has to be seen in good quality because unfortunately, aside from the sets, it has nothing going on for it. Nothing. That is not a virtue, quite on the contrary. People need to stop blaming Zanuck for this disaster, because the only one responsible for this mess is Mankiewicz.
How on earth is it possible that there is not a single close up in a 4 hour movie? What is this? How could he think it a good idea to shoot Cleopatra almost exclusively in wide shots as if it was a play? The result is obvious: The movie is one of the most soporific movies of all time even though it has some of the greatest lines and acting in history, it's barely watchable. It's unbearable, thanks to Mankiewicz.
How is it possible that you have the most beautiful woman in the world, looking like the most beautiful woman in the world for the last time in her life, and that ASS HOLE didn't think of doing a single close up shot of Elizabeth Taylor's face?? Seriously.
So the blame should be put on who deserves it, Mankiewicz. I guess all the drugs he was shooting up didn't let him think straight.
And even with all the complaints about plotholes and scenes lacking, the movie is still too long and you can take at least 1 more hour out and it wouldn't make it more of a mess.
I have felt for a long time that Cleopatra needs to be handed to a new director for a new cut, with closeups done with cropping, and I am certain that a masterpiece will come out, because there is a masterpiece in this film, not because of Mankiewicz, but despite of him.
How on earth is it possible that there is not a single close up in a 4 hour movie? What is this? How could he think it a good idea to shoot Cleopatra almost exclusively in wide shots as if it was a play?
So close ups were impossible?? Where can I read this? Is that also responsible for the incredible distortions on the wide shot scenes? And it is his fault, he was the director after all.
shareFrom the level of finger-pointing in your posts and even your choice of a user ID, I now figure you're not interested in changing your mind about anything you already think; so I won't bother any further. Read about Todd-AO on your own if you like.
As for "the incredible distortions on the wide shot scenes," that might be your TV monitor. Such a description sure didn't apply to the beautiful 70mm print of CLEOPATRA which I watched in a theatre in Chicago just two weeks ago.
Most great films deserve a more appreciative audience than they get.
It seems that you have serious issues, I have read about Todd-AO and not once have I ever read that closeups were not possible on this format, which is no different format at all, it's just a bigger negative, it wasn't neither original nor innovative and outside of Cleopatra and the garbage movie 80 days around the world, no other film used actually.
I have seen Cleopatra many times and on different formats, DVD, on cable in television, on the computer, and the wideshots have massive distortion, all the columns look like they are going to cave in at any second.
Joseph L. Mankiewicz alone destroyed this movie and thanks to him it turned out into the most soporific mess that has ever been made to film, wasting a perfectly excellent performance by Elizabeth Taylor, which should be considered as one of her best and acting wise the definitive version of Cleopatra, but it isn't because how could it be?? The movie is unwatchable and outside of the morbid curiosity of its initial theatrical run, I don't think many people have been able to see them and I don't blame them, thanks to Mankiewicz of course.
I used to think the title of "Best Entrance" belonged to Eddie Murphy's movie Coming to America(bride to be's entrance). Then I recently watched Cleopatra. Hands down Liz's entrance atop the sphynx with her sonbis the clear winner!!! Awesome!!!!
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