MovieChat Forums > Cleopatra (1963) Discussion > A helluva lot better than Tom Jones

A helluva lot better than Tom Jones


After 30+ years as a film buff, I finally braved the whole four-hour enchilada -- albeit in two segments -- and I must say it is much better than I expected. The only real flaw was a script that, on the one hand, had a surfeit of unnecessary dialogue-for-dialogue's-sake that didn't serve much purpose and, on the other hand, compromised some important points of plot and character motivation (perhaps fleshed out more in the six-hour original). Yet I was never bored. The direction was superbly competent and surprisingly un-hokey, and there were some really interesting and unusual details. Harrison was excellent, as was McDowell. Taylor was very good and conveyed Cleopatra's immense charisma brilliantly -- you can see why these men fell for her as hard as they did. Even Richard Burton, whose performance was far from his best, had his moments. Alex North's score (except for one really bad segment that had a totally anachronistic jazz-like feel to it) added immeasurably to the experience. Finally, saving the best for last, the visuals. Oh my, those visuals! Cinematography, production design, art direction, costumes -- sumptuous from start to finish. If you see it, it must be in Hi-Def on as big a screen as possible.

EDIT: Oh, about that subject line. 1963 was not exactly a great year for English-language movies, so I guess that Tom Jones -- being something of a groundbreaker in terms of cinematic style -- was regarded as the best of the bunch. But I've never really cared for it.

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Interesting that you complement the direction when in reality Mankiewicz was on speed the entire time and he still managed to make the most soporific pacing and editing in a film in history. There's also not a single close up on this film. Not one. This hasn't been done since 1911 and for good reason, the effect is, well soporific.

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"...most soporific pacing and editing in a film in history..."

Then you've obviously never seen L'Avventura.
Hey, one person's soporific is another person's stimulating. I like that the film was deliberately paced and that scenes took time to breathe. There was always some interesting detail to be seen. And I don't know how you can claim that there were no close-ups when I saw plenty of them. Close enough to see all the pockmarks on Burton's face, and close enough to see every detail of Taylor's tracheotomy scar.

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Then you don't know what a closeup is. A shot were the frame lands in her breasts does not a close up make. There are no closeups in this film, with the arguable exception of the final closing in on her face as she dies. That's just the Joseph L. Mankiewicz trademark of shoddiness, you have the most beautiful woman in the world at the peak of her beauty and you shoot no closeups. Sad really.

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I have no idea what your obsession with close-ups is. Since when were close-ups some kind of automatic indicator of quality? If I want to see a bunch of close-ups, I'll watch a TV show. I liked the framing of the shots in Cleopatra -- and how long they were held -- because it allowed the eye to take in a lot of interesting peripheral detail.
For some reason you seem to have a real axe to grind with Mankiewicz. Not sure what that's all about.

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I didn't say it was an indicator of quality, you did. The eyes can only take so much and film is a cinematic language. Try reading an entire book without any form of punctuation. That is a film without close ups, like this film. It's grating and it is soporific. I guess you are dumb like Mankiewicz and can't grasp this basic element of film technique.

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"Grating and soporific" -- you mean like your posts?
Yep, I knew you were going to resort to personal insults. You just seemed like that type.

Buh-bye!

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FĂșck off.

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[deleted]



Agree that "Tom Jones" is overrated and strains too hard at being whimsical.

"Cleopatra" is interesting to watch, entertaining on some level.

"L'Avventura" is better than either of them.

This EatCake person seems obsessed with hatred for Mankiewicz and grievance against The Patriarchy. Probably a graduate student getting some kind of social studies degree.

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i think cleopatra is an impressive film though not one of my favourites - it's overlong, and the second half. I find a bit slow. but i do think it is a better film than to. jones, which I find overly coy and self consciously whimsical. my favourite film of 1963 though is Charade.

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