MovieChat Forums > Cleopatra (1963) Discussion > What is the point of a narrator repeatin...

What is the point of a narrator repeating Charmian's last dialogue??


It absolutely DESTROYS the final scene.

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To each his own. I thought it fit well with Alex North's closing of the Cleo theme; one of my favorite endings.

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No it doesn't, it destroys everything. Charmian's original words which Shakespeare quoted verbatim are also way better than what Mankiewicz wrote.

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More like it's your opinion it destroys everything (which must be a considerable feat, considering your negativity toward the previous four hours). I just happen to disagree.
And Mankiewicz kept Plutarch's 'Extremely well' which Shakespeare omitted, but I digress...

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No, Shakespeare included it. My only negativity is against Mankiewicz that ruined such splendor of a movie.

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Shakespeare kept the 'well' but omitted Plutarch's 'Extremely'
Less verbatim and more synonymous, as all three versions (from Lu, Will, and Joe) have Charmain answer to the quality of the death service for Cleopatra as accord to her royal lineage. Mankiewicz uses Plutarch's 'Extremely Well,' paraphrases Shakespeare's 'fitting" to 'befitting' and does his own spin of the final part, adding 'the last' (which was true) and switches 'kings' to 'rulers' (which implies the inclusion of empowered female queens like Nefritiri and Hatshepsut).

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It didn't work.

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It didn't work.

What didn't work? Using the actual words of Plutarch instead of Shakespeare's? Or having the narrator repeat them? Either way, they both worked perfectly.

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No they didn't it sucked, and he did not use Plutarch's words but his own drug infused variation, because he shot this movie high on speed in case you didn't know.

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No they didn't it sucked

That is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but I do note that you are very much alone in having that opinion.


and he did not use Plutarch's words but his own drug infused variation, because he shot this movie high on speed in case you didn't know.

He did use Plutarch's words. To the letter. All except for the omission of Charmion's name in the dialogue, which was fine.

And "high speed", my foot. The result is certainly not high speed, so that piece of criticism is completely irrelevant, even if true.

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It's not criticism, it's a fact, Mankiewicz would receive several speed shots during the day and then go to sleep with barbiturates, this went on for all the years long shooting.

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On the contrary, it makes the final scene. It emphasises the dialogue, giving it added gravitas. What's more, it tells the viewer that this bit of dialogue perhaps has some historical evidence, rather than something the script writer made up for this movie.

Also, why are you going on about Shakespeare? Shakespeare is not an authority. Shakespeare changed the words of Plutarch. My guess is that you saw the Shakespeare version first, fell in love with it, and everything which is not Shakespeare is not good enough for you, for no better reason than it is not identical to the first thing you saw.

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Indeed. The repetition implies the story has now become written history. It worked for me.

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Not at all, I read the actual quote in Stacy Schiff's excellent Cleopatra biography and it sounded amazing and beautiful, way better than this scene.

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Not at all, I read the actual quote in Stacy Schiff's excellent Cleopatra biography and it sounded amazing and beautiful, way better than this scene.

You read the actual quote in Schiff's biography? So Schiff was present, taking notes? Schiff relies on written sources, same as any other historian. English translations may vary, of course, but the one in this movie was spot on, and the scene was just about perfect. Whatever Shakespeare wrote is irrelevant: he was a playwright, not an historian.

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Yes she did quote the actual words that have come down through ancient historians which Shakespeare quoted verbatim and which sound better than Mankiewicz' drugged infused writing.

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