MovieChat Forums > The Cardinal (1963) Discussion > I used to feel Preminger was overrated u...

I used to feel Preminger was overrated until I saw this film...

posted 15 years ago by GrigoryGirl
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The film was surprisingly good, in fact, it was excellent. I used to be hostile to Preminger's work, but after seeing this film (which I found deeply moving, wonderful, and thought provoking), I went back and saw a ton of Preminger's work again, and I reversed my opinion of the man. He's a great filmmaker.

Despite being made 45 years ago or so, most of it hasn't dated at all. The issues are still valid and important today.

See it in a widescreen print. Preminger's framing is immaculate.

[–] artihcus022 15 years ago

Despite being made 45 years ago or so, most of it hasn't dated at all. The issues are still valid and important today.

Indeed they are. And it is the only thorough film made on the functioning of the world's oldest political organization. In fact now that the Church seems to be at the beginning of a steep slide into oblivion, this film is all the more relevant and prescient.

I went back and saw a ton of Preminger's work again, and I reversed my opinion of the man. He's a great filmmaker.

I didn't get Preminger either in the beginning. But the more you get into his films and especially the not very well known or written about ones like Angel Face or The Cardinal the more you appreciate him. It's hard to find a more intelligent film-maker who made films for an adult audience(then and especially today).

"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

[–] GrigoryGirl 15 years ago

Thanks for your thoughtful comments. The issues The Cardinal raises are still valid and complex today. I found the film refreshing in its complex depiction of the church hierarchy, of matters of faith, matters of reconciling faith with the world (especially true in the scene where Tom Tryon goes to the South to help a black priest), and the incredible filmic style of Premigner.

It is true the Church is in decline today, and while religion/churches are not perfect institutions, they are not completely evil and corrupt either, as they are often portrayed as these days.

One of the few positive portrayals of a priest in recent memory was in Eastwood's Gran Torino.

Preminger does what I think great filmmakers do; he trusts the audience, and makes films for adults. He never indulges in cheap sentimentality, or use sledgehammer music cues. In fact, he hardly uses music at all, so when he does, it's even more effective, like near the end of The Cardinal where the group protesting the Nazis breaks out in song. It's a beautiful, heartbreaking, and deeply moving moment.

A friend of mine (and fellow Preminger fan) highly recommended Angel Face. I still need to see it.

[–] artihcus022 15 years ago

One of the few positive portrayals of a priest in recent memory was in Eastwood's Gran Torino.

It's affectionate but positive? The film includes him as a comic figure and we identify with Clint Eastwood who calls him a "27-year old virgin with no experience of life" and in fact the priest at the funeral at the end accepts that criticism with impeccable grace.

The Cardinal isn't a positive portrayal of priesthood either. It has a lot of criticism of the central character who is portrayed with ambiguity. On one hand he wants to rise through the ranks of the Church but he also wants to be a good priest and we aren't entirely sure to what extent he is driven by altruism and to what he is driven by self-interest. And the delicious thing is, he isn't sure either. With each step up the ladder of the Church he becomes more and more remote to the people who he swears to help and protect and who in turn suffered while he survived and proceeded upwards. The scenes with Ossie Davis is especially powerful.

... they are not completely evil and corrupt either, as they are often portrayed as these days.

It would be easier to reconcile with the Church if they were evil and corrupt. We can simply abolish and abandon it as a relic from the past. The messes which the Church presides over is the work of idiots who stand side by side with a few worthy priests who struggle just like Fr. Fermoyle to do their work. So you have Cardinal Hamao who stayed longer than the UN to look after Baghdad refugees in Iraq and you have a Pope who was a former Hitler Youth who rescinds an ex-communication of a Holocaust Denying Bishop.

In fact, he hardly uses music at all, so when he does, it's even more effective, like near the end of The Cardinal where the group protesting the Nazis breaks out in song. It's a beautiful, heartbreaking, and deeply moving moment.

It is. It's about the failure and the defeat of the Church in stopping Nazism and a tribute to the few good Catholics who had to live with those people during the war, sometimes helping Jews to escape and sometimes related to people who sent the same people to the ovens.

A friend of mine (and fellow Preminger fan) highly recommended Angel Face. I still need to see it.

It's not like The Cardinal despite the title. It's a film noir and a melodrama in perversity.

You might be interested in Saint Joan since you like The Cardinal. It has a screenplay by Graham Greene based on G. B. Shaw's masterpiece. These two are the only occassions Preminger touched on religion.

"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

[–] GrigoryGirl 15 years ago

I think the word "affectionate" is more appropriate than the word I used, positive (referring to the portrayal of the priest in Gran Torino). It's not an overly negative, mocking portrayal, as is the case in many movies nowadays.

You're right that Tyron's character is struggling througout the entire film, and it's a real struggle, not a superficial one at all (which is one of the aspects of the film I admire). It's one I can imagine a real priest/cardinal would go through. Instead of indulging in cliches and grammar school debates about matters of faith (which is so often the case in our polarisied, uncivil society), The Cardinal manages to discuss them with compassion, intelligence, wit, and aplomb.

I knew Angel Face was a film noir, hehehe.

I'd like to see Saint Joan, but it's not on DVD. I'd also like to see Preminger's final film, The Human Factor, as I've heard it's better than its reputation. His last years weren't the greatest for him, sadly. He had a hard time getting financing, and the few films he made were poorly received, both at the box office and criticially (Rosebud, his penultimate film, is considered the worst of his career).

[–] artihcus022 15 years ago

I'd like to see Saint Joan, but it's not on DVD.

In France it is.

You're right that Tyron's character is struggling througout the entire film, and it's a real struggle, not a superficial one at all.

Definitely. He's not a perfect man, he makes mistakes but he's trying his hardest and striving genuinely to be a man of God.

Instead of indulging in cliches and grammar school debates about matters of faith (which is so often the case in our polarisied, uncivil society),

Faith itself isn't an issue in this movie. It's about how an organization dedicated to it's principles function with it. This movie isn't a "silence of God" story like Graham Greene's The End of the Affair but about how a person tries to stay true to that faith inside a Church that has to make compromises with reality. Fr. Fermoyle's problems is not about his faith or his belief in God, that's unshaken throughout the film.

The Cardinal manages to discuss them with compassion, intelligence, wit, and aplomb.

It's also amazing how it displays Church politics with such clarity and intelligence that the film achieves what most people think is impossible - A 3hr film about the Catholic Church which is constantly entertaining. And aside from the flawed story of the sister, it isn't too lurid either.

"Ça va by me, madame...Ça va by me!" - The Red Shoes

[–] GrigoryGirl 15 years ago

I don't have an all region player, so I can't watch that French DVD of St. Joan.

You're right. Fermoyle's faith is never really called into question. It's how he deals with the reality of the world and his attempts to reconcile his faith with the realities of the world.

It is amazing that there are no dead spots in the entire film. It unfolds beautifully like a grand novel. It's really well put together.

The sister's story is a little dated. Social mores nowadays wouldn't condemn her as badly for having a child out of wedlock.

The scene in the hospital, however, is still pretty grim.

[–] norberte 13 years ago

I remember one review I liked which simply stated " damn that Preminger he puts so many production values in this film that after you watched it you don't know whether you liked it or not ". I liked it, the movie that is.

[–] EliotTempleton 8 years ago

And it is the only thorough film made on the functioning of the world's oldest political organization.

See Fred Zinnemann's The Nun's Story (1959).