SPOILER. DOnt read anymore if you dont want to see...
Why Was John Wayne's character convinced he murdered Liberty. One Liberty was scum but two Liberty was also trying to Murder Stewart's character. So although Wayne wasnt in danger his friend was. He was saving his life. Not murder.
I don't think this view of murder was so much about the West, but more about Doniphon. Of course this was not really murder, but you got to understand Doniphon's state of mind when he said it. I think Doniphon was basically in a state of self loathing and depression, and I think that's why he called it cold blooded murder.
Doniphon and Liberty sort of symbolized an era of the wild West that was slowly coming to a close, and I think by killing Liberty and saving Ransom Tom realized he was actually helping to usher in a new era of the West. But ironically I don't think Tom was entirely comfortable with this new era, primarily because he had lost Haley and his plans for the future. So in a sense he sort of felt left behind. That's why he told Ransom he wished he hadn't saved his life, and he was just trying to downplay the whole thing in a state of self loathing.
He gunned him down without Liberty ever having a chance. Tom wasn't a saint but that's still murder.
shareI suppose you're right -- but there were mitigating circumstances: In doing so, it could plausibly be argued he saved another man's life.
shareLiberty might have been a clinical paranoid schizophrenic, as I believe he didn't think of himself as "evil" (though evil, he was) and relied on his two hechmen to hold him back when he became too violent. To Liberty, he was just doing his bit for the cattlemen's conglomerate, either ridding "cattle country" of "squatters" and newcomers or keeping them under control; "but then this meddling, tenderfoot upstart, Ransom Stoddard, comes along with all his college-boy talk about 'education, law and order' and upsetting our cozy little set-up" might be how Liberty would state his own point of view.
But I'm with the first respondent: I don't think any jury in its right mind would convict Tom or Ranse of outright murder. Liberty was the one who called out Ranse and everyone knew that Ranse didn't have a prayer. Tom probably could have killed Liberty in a more open manner and in the more "honorable" dueling customs of the Western code than he did, but he was more interested in giving Hallie a secure future than je was in either covertly OR openly killing Libety. And to some extent, Tom cared about Ranse, too, despite the love triangle with Hallie. I don't think that killing a man who is in the act of attempting to gun down a tenderfoot constitutes murder.
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It doesn't matter whether Liberty had a chance or not. Doniphon was doing what was necessary to save Ransom's life. It was not murder.
shareWhile I don't think it's a clean cut case, I think that Wayne knew he was kind of using Rance as bait. I guess that's murder to a point. Liberty deserved what he got given the circumstances but the circumstances were more or less pre-arranged.
share& "Tom" suffers for the killing-the rest of his days. He takes to the bottle, lights the room he was building for Miles afire. Ends up in a wooden box, without his boots, a pauper's grave waiting..."Rand, he hadn't carried a gun for years."
"Pompei" is all that's remains of Tom's (family) to speak publicly (and he's a freed slave) to the fact that "Tom" was ever on this earth.
Killing a "Valance" sounds easy, necessary, even commissioned, but, (Tom Doniphon) is living proof of it's boundless aftermath.
Can you offer up proof that he is left the way he is because of the killing or because of his failed relationship? Perhaps some of both, yes, but I highly doubt that he felt too bad about killing Liberty.
shareNo. It's just how I see the film playing out. Why hadn't he killed Valance to that point? He'd certainly been deserving. When she first comes into the dining area there with the orders and finds Valance there they have a moment, is there a connection between Miles & Valance? Not romantically, but, there is a recognition between the two. Something. There is a flash of tenderness in Valance if you look closely.
You're correct though, "Perhaps some of both" is right.
When you kill a man you have to live with that the rest of your life. They make it seem easy on tv and film, but, it changes a person, forever and perhaps that is what Ford & Wayne were conveying.