Gays and Gypsy


Can someone tell me why the gay male population is enfatuated with this Burlesque musical? I am finding it very baffling.

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I have no clue. Gay men also like Bernedette Peters and Liza Minelli (who never played the role but is simalar to Berndette.) who is playing the role on Broadway now.

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It may also have a bit to do (in sort of a feedback-loop way) with the 1993 TV version of the film starring Bette Midler, known in the gay community of the 70s for her early start with Barry Manilow at the Continental Baths in NYC.

Or maybe it's the idea that the Burlesque's second act (sadly never shown) was listed on the board as "Gaston & Pierre - Two French Francs".

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Funny and sad how people are [incorrectly and sometimes offensively] conjecturing why they think gay people like this musical. Do you really not know one gay person, of whom you can ask their opinion?

It's because there are bits that are campy. The stripper women are over the top and hilarious. The mother is completely over the top. It's because of Sondheim and the genius lyrical writing. It's the transformation of mousey Louise into a powerful, sexy woman who owns who she is. It's the shade that she throws at her mother, "I thought you did it for me."

And in another thread, someone complains about there being "too much Mama." The irony of the film/musical's title is a love letter to her mother, but gave herself the title. And in spite of all the things Rose was, Gypsy wouldn't have come into who she was without Rose being who she was.

Overall, it's a fascinating story that is told remarkably well.

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Gay men are obsessed with this show for MANY reasons. First off, its the ugly-duckling theme that many gay men can relate to. Louise is an awkward and untalented child who has no real place in the show business world she's forced to endure as a child. Many gay men grow up feeling equally awkward in their younger years, as if they simply do not belong wherever it is they came from. Louise uses her wits to transform herself into the star Gypsy Rose Lee. "Coming out" and finding a place for oneself in society, on one's own terms, involves a similar degree of self-possession, and often requires the same sense of self-deprecating humor that was Ms. Lee's trademark.

Moreover, gay men are far more apt than straight men to find amusement in the rather unpleasant domineering character that is Gypsy's "Momma." The part was created by Ethel Merman, after all, one of the greatest camp icons who ever lived. This character is also someone for gay men to identify with, albeit in a sadder sense. "Momma" pushes and pushes to get her own way all the time, and when she finally does, she ends up all alone in her declining years. This is also the fate of many gay men.

Then of course there are all the FABULOUS tunes and costumes! I could go on and on, but I'm sure you get my drift.

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i must admit, not being one to like to pigeon-hole people, i did wonder myself.

thanks for the great explanation though!

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Think about it. In "Gypsy," little Louise starts out dressed as a boy for her sister's act and inevitably grows up to be a celebrated burlesque queen. Sort of like a little boy who grows up to be a fabulous cross-dresser, a la RuPaul or Charles Busch. The gay element in "Gypsy" may not be direct -- there are no gay characters in it -- but it's there for the gay population to appreciate.

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Excellent analysis of the gay appeal of GYPSY. Well-thought out and thoughtfully written without being offensive. Thank you.

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I agree but also want to add

1) The Score is Amazing
2) The Show and MAMA herself has a "F-Off" them. Meaning I want to live my life my way not the way you want me to live my life. (Another theme Gay Men Identify with)

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Because Gypsy is worthy of such infatuation. I know I love Gypsy (I'm a straight girl). I own both DVDs.

The more he bleeds, the more her lives
He never forgets and he never forgives

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Do you have to be gay to like it?

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Arthur Laurents says he undertook the writing when someone told him that
<gypsy Rose Lee ´s mother was a lesbian. Yet, this seems to be well desguised
in the film.

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I read in Laurents autobiography that during/after he finished work on 'Gypsy' he attended a party, and met a woman who was supposedly Rose's lover. But gay themes or characters don't directly appear in the play or musical, and I think it would've been a very different musical (and impossible to present in the 1950's) had Mama Rose been shown to be a lesbian.

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maybe because one of the greatest gay musical composers of all time got his big break writing the lyrics?

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It's kind of odd - I've been a Sondheim fan since the very early 1970s, and was familiar with his lyrics even before that, but I must confess that I've never, ever thought of him as "one of the greatest gay musical composers of all time" - I suppose the same could be said of Jerry Herman, yet I never think of him that way, either, even though he wrote "I Am What I Am," which of course has become a gay anthem.

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

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Yes, West Side Story was the one that had the song that goes "I feel pretty and witty and gay!' But that's really beside the point. Perhaps it's because the striptease scenes in GYPSY don't show any skin at all. Rita Hayworth's number in GILDA comes to mind.

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Sondheim has always professed to feeling ashamed at giving a Puerto Rican girl lyrics with such internal rhymes as "I feel pretty and witty and gay!" and "it's alarming how charming I feel"

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

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Indeed it is "I feel pretty and witty and bright, because what follows is "And I pity any girl who isn't me tonight."

Bernstein had already written some lyrics for WSS by the time Sondheim came aboard, but during the production he offered to allow Sondheim sole credit as lyricist. He also offered to alter Sondheim's royalty arrangement more favorably, an offer Sondheim declined. In an interview he said something like "and let's not talk about how much money that hasty decision has cost me over the years!" But both composers remained pretty much mum on who wrote what.

"I don't use a pen: I write with a goose quill dipped in venom!"---W. Lydecker

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Bernstein had already written some lyrics for WSS when Sondheim came aboard - he graciously allowed Sondheim to take full credit, and even offered to adjust his royalty scale accordingly - Sondheim agreed to the first suggestion but declined the second, and has said in interviews "Don't ask how many millions of dollars THAT cost me!"

"In my case, self-absorption is completely justified."

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The lyrics of the film version goes, "I feel pretty and witty and gay, And I pity any girl who isn't me today. Tra la la la la la la la!" There's still daylight when the scene happens in the movie

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The gay men I know never even heard of "Gypsy." (These are men in their forties.)

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exactly... I'd say most gay men under 60 don't even like musical theatre and I'd wager that most under 50 don't even know Gypsy exists.

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Well, I'd say it's not gay men everywhere who love this musical, it's gay men who appreciate musical theater.

In addition to the show's themes, there's also the fact that the composition of this show (in its music, lyrics and book) is one of the finest in Broadway's history.

Not only are the tunes great (listen to that overture!), the lyrics are superb...and each song is integral to the story (i.e. it moves the plot forward). And the songs arise organically out of the situation....no one just suddenly bursts into song about the situation in Peru or something.

You could say each aspect of this show is scrupulously constructed.

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I don't really know but I wonder if it is Rosalind Russell's performance. She is domineering and has the voice of a drag queen in 'Gypsy.'. At times she reminds me of Tony Curtis's drag performance in 'Some Like It Hot.' The clothes are fairly similar as well.

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Hmmm...Yes. And she's about as shapely as Tony Curtis, as well : (

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