MovieChat Forums > Days of Wine and Roses (1963) Discussion > disturbing scene...

disturbing scene...

posted 11 years ago by rondine
11 replies | jump to latest

Am I the only one that found Kirsten trying to kiss her Dad repeatedly, disturbing?

I know she was drunk, but the way she hung on him & asked him to kiss her seemed to be indicative of a bigger, albeit, hidden issue. I've been drunk a few times myself but never, ever thought of clinging to my father and asking him to kiss me! eeew!

What do you all think?

[–] snelling 11 years ago

She was out of her head and she needed her daddy. Try to put it into perspective from her point of view and in her state of mind.

Rebuild the WTC exactly as before and keep old movies accurate!

[–] PoppyTransfusion 11 years ago

I think she wanted affection from him, nothing more. Her descriptions of him made him sound taciturn at least if not emotionally withdrawn from his daughter whe she was a child. It was sad to see her so wretched and then fighting with her daughter for his attention.

Away with the manners of withered virgins

[–] rondine 11 years ago

I think you may be correct about the affection issue and of course he seemed to be consistently "crusty" so I guess it is possible that she just wanted the demonstration of his love that he never gave her.
Good analysis by you... thanks!

[–] 11 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rondine 10 years ago

I didn't think of her reaction to her daughter, but yes - now that you mention it there does seem to be some subliminal thread going on here. But also, Kirsten seemed to have some serious issues with being an addictive personality from the get go.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] rondine 10 years ago

I don't think it's reaching to cite the way people used to think. There were many erroneous beliefs when it came to any kind of psychology/mental health. If you think about it, you can't really fault prior generations for their lack of insight because the mind and what makes it work (and not work) are something that is so intangible and difficult to diagnose.
Mental health and the ability to correctly diagnose mental illness, seems to be getting better, thank goodness!

[–] huckfunn 8 years ago

Am I the only one that found Kirsten trying to kiss her Dad repeatedly, disturbing?

You are not the only one who found that scene "disturbing." Before coming to your thread, I was looking at the board to see if anyone commented on that scene, and I was going to start a thread.

Now, I only play a psychologist online, but there definitely is a hint of more than just a sudden need for affection -- especially when you throw in the jealously at Debbie, when she enters the scene. Kirsten's behavior is amorous (that of a mature woman), as well as a self-declared act of loneliness. Not enough info given to infer a prior relationship with physical intimacy of some kind, but it sure looks like a boundary has been crossed, even if it is just in Kirsten's mind.

I was curious to see if this scene was in Frankenheimer's Playhouse 90 version (on YouTube, btw), and it is. Charles Bickford plays the father here as well. The scene is essentially the same, except I would say that, in the '62 film, Kirsten is slightly more aggressive (amorous) in the way she pulls her father toward her face so he can "kiss me goodnight."

Also significant, I think, is that in the film Kirsten says, to her father, "I'm lonely." This is a theme with her throughout the film, and it typically expresses itself in Kirsten seeking physical affection -- from Joe or, later, from a series of unseen male drinking buddies.

In the excellent "Sherrybaby," there is a similar (but modern) scene at the end in which Maggie Gyllenhaal's character starts to revert to a prior sexual relationship with her father in a moment of desperation. Really well done, and illuminating.

Martha Washington was a hip, hip, hip lady, man.

[–] rondine 8 years ago

Huckfunn - I think your post is right on the money. You put it into words better. Thank you for your insight into the Playhouse 90 version too! Are those available on a DVD yet? I've always wanted to see the Judgement at Nuremberg with Claude Rains.

Thanks for your post! :)

[–] huckfunn 8 years ago

Well, thank you for the thank-you, rondine. As you allude to in an earlier post, there is much unknown about how our sexuality is formed and influenced. (Just look at the "sudden" public topic of transgenders.)

No doubt the quality and degree of interaction between a father and daughter has a lifetime impact on the daughter's outlook. As the father of a 22-year-old, I can tell you it is bittersweet (but healthy) to know that the hugs and kisses once reserved just for Dad have transitioned to whomever the latest boy or boyfriend is.

Thanks again for starting this thread. (I wonder why there are two deleted messages.) Sorry, I don't know anything about a DVD collection for P 90.

Martha Washington was a hip, hip, hip lady, man.

[–] IsoldeJaneHolland 8 years ago

Love Maggie Gyllenhaal, huckfunn!