Having just watched Master and Commander with Russell Crowe, I found myself unimpressed and wishing for a performance closer to Alec Guiness's or Jack Hawkins' in "The Cruel Sea." True, it's been a few years since seeing HMS Defiant; but I felt it was the better movie. Anyone else feel the same?
shareMaster and Commander is infinitely more rewarding to watch if you have read the novels it is based on, but aside from that, while HMS Defiant/Damn the Defiant is a good movie in its own right, the two films are sufficiently different to make comparisons difficult.
Personally, I would rate M&C more highly, but taste is a capricious thing.
Master and Commander isn't a patch on the butt of Damn the Defiant or, Horatio Hornblower. M&C doesn't follow the books from which its name derives, to any worthwhile degree and simply spends way too much time showing us the tedium and boredom of ship live and bored me to tears in turn. The A&E Hornblower series was head and shoulders above M&C.
shareI was incredibly underwhelmed by Masochist Commander (I prefer the MAD-Title, hehe). "Defiant" is the much better film, generally because it boasts the greatest actor ever (sorry Mr. Crowe), a beautiful cinematography and great storytelling. It's a pity this film is relatively unknown.
"Everybody gets everything he wants."
hms defiant is clearly the better film and the better book, but hey nothing is better than hornblower
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Classic "apples and oranges" argument.
I give them both thumbs up.
Well put, Mr. Burke; each book/movie/TV version has its own merits and shortcomings. That being said, my own opinion would rank them thusly;
Hornblower Series (book)
Hornblower Series (A&E)
Mutiny (book)
HMS Defiant
-bilge swillings (all sources)
Master and Commander (books)
-whale droppings
Master and Commander (movie)
May I also have the temerity to point out that C.S. Forester's 'Hornblower' dealt with both mutiny and the great 'Mutinies' of the Nore and Spithead, as well as Pigott's murder, at least in a philosophic manner.
"Roman Legion; Count OFF"
"I", "II", "III", "IV" ...
I agree. M & C has fantastic production values and solid acting - but after the first action of the film - nothing really happens for the last 2/3 of the running time. In fact, just when things heat up and they sail off after their nemesis, the film abruptly ends. Damn the Defiant tells a full story with lots of drama - and in less time.
Filmmakers today know lots about visuals but they have mostly lost the gift of effective story telling.
M & C is a bit of a plodder if truth be told and vastly overrated.Only discovered Damn The Defiant quite recently and it`s definitely superior although Anthony Quale is perhaps slightly out of sorts here-propably better to have cast him as one of the officers.It`s a shame the film is largely unknown and probably makes a nicely restored Blu-ray highly unlikely.
shareJust watched Defiant for the first time. Phenomenal. A jewel.
If you're reading this discussion, I humbly request you read the following review.
As a lifelong nautical fanatic, and having seen Mutiny on the Bounty (Laughton/Gable), Horatio Hornblower (A&E), and Master and Commander, and having read tomes of literature on British nautical history, including historical fiction such as the Aubrey/Maturin novels by Patrick O'Brian (aka, Master and Commander), and the Midshipman Quinn novels, I can, with credibility and perspective state that Damn the Defiant and Master and Commander rank equally as cinematic masterpieces of nautical history in their respective eras.
A reader of the Master and Commander books can appreciate Peter Weir's loyalty to the characters and general atmosphere of the books portrayed in the single movie adaptation intended to do justice to a 21-book series.
As for the lack of action in the middle of M&C, it compares fairly well to the opening of Defiant. However, neither film is entirely mundane. Both portray the harsh reality of navy life, while providing some action and drama during the slow parts (the abuse and planning of the mutiny in Defiant, and Hollom's suicide/the flight from and pursuit of the French frigate Acheron, even through an intense storm in Master and Commander.)
One mistake in Defiant stands out more than any in Master and Commander: that is, the exploding cannonballs and fires on the ships' decks. Though not unheard of, fire-shot was uncommon at this period in time, and fires would have been given more attention, despite the battle, as nothing short of a hurricane or a reef was more threatening to a wooden ship. In fact, the only existing fire-shot would not have been capable of exploding, as it was simply made by heating the iron shot in the ship's forge.
As far as Guiness vs. Crowe, I find they both portrayed their respective rolls appropriately, and more or less stand side-by-side, like their movies. In Crowe's defense, he couldn't-and neither could anyone else-have played the roll of Jack Aubrey more accurately. Guiness, on the other hand, played and excellent, honorable, heroic and classic frigate captain. The two appropriately fill their respective boots.
We must recall also that the nautical resources were far more plentiful in the 60s', while HMS Surprise (M&C) is one of the few frigates still sailing and in condition to perform for live film. Sadly, tragically, the ship that played Defiant (Marcel B. Surdo)was abandoned and scrapped in an obscure Italian port (stated for the benefit of those who, like myself, may have been searching for what became of the beautiful ship, immortalized by this movie.)
In conclusion, the movies HMS Defiant and Master and Commander hold their own; even stand together as great films of different eras, but neither of which have been appropriately appreciated.
"Damn the Defiant!" is an excellent film; however, "Master and Commander" is clearly superior. As for the "Hornblower" novels that have been mentioned, they are comic books compared to Patrick O'Brian's classic Aubrey-Maturin series.
shareBoth are good but I feel Master and Commander is better
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