MovieChat Forums > Chûshingura (1963) Discussion > Excellent story

Excellent story

posted 20 years ago by ingres77
16 replies | jump to latest

But way too long. I don't have a problem with movies that unfold slowly. That take their time to set up the characters (we started out with over 60) and the story....but come on. This movie was like Lawrence of Arabia - except it's length was obvious. I'd look at my watch every 30 minutes or so.

The story was superb, don't get me wrong. I loved it.

But it was overly long - and Toshiro Mifune was under-used. I thought this was a Mifune film, but that isn't the case. His total screen time amounts to a cameo performance.

7.6/10

Now let the pebble go. There goes Australia! See how stupid your theory is? - Gurtinator

[–] boardwalk_angel 19 years ago

I watched Chushingura yesterday...and I was astounded when it was over..it didn't feel at all like 3 and a half hours had gone by. I really got so lost in it that it seemed like about 2 hours.
Another time..another day...my mood may have produced a different effect..you never know.

[–] sukiyakihotsake 18 years ago

Ever since I bought this movie I watch it about once every other month on average. Its incredible. I tell other people its my inspiration movie. I pop this in and am immersed for 3 and a half hours. Sometimes I make a event out of it and buy a bottle of sake to drink while watching.

"I don't know Karate, but I know CRAZY!"

[–] iscream22 18 years ago

I just got the flick actually as an Easter gift. I love Toshire Mifune and many other samarai/Martial Arts movies. My girlfriend just picked this one out at random, and gave it to me as a gift.
From what you guys are saying it sounds like it is at least a pretty interesting flick! Its good to know she didnt buy me total crap, like those Bruce Li (not Lee) movies.

ISCREAM22 HAS SPOKEN!!

[–] Aulic Exclusiva 17 years ago

The pace of traditional Japanese dramaturgy is very different from that prevalent in this country in the present day; the hieratic acting out of long-enfolding, formally depicted emotions needs both time and space to flourish: Time in this picture is a very different thing from what it becomes in some fast-moving popular melodrama of the kind that Hollywood specialises on.

There is also a veritable OCEAN of unforgettable images in this film that cannot be hurried over. They must be allowed their cumulative effect on their own terms.

Watching that unforgettable finale under the snow, one feels as though one had arrived at the cathartic end of some long-drawn religious rite, which I take it is what the Confucian idea of theatre is.

This is indeed a film to live with.

And, luckily, watching it on DVD at home, one can halt the projection and run to the bathroom!

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
If the Kingdom of Heaven is like a grain of mustard, It can also be like a chicken-pox mark.

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

I agree with you entirely, Aulic; I never thought any film would come close to the great Seven Samurai, but this one does. I can see that I will be watching it again and again, as I do the Kurosawa. What a feast of exquisite images, real and sympathetic characters and fascinating detail.

Ignore the chap with the short attention span at the top of the board, he was obviously just looking for another chambara slasher. The presence of Toshiro Mifune in a minor role is just another indication of the care and devotion with which this beautiful film was put together - as someone says in the User Comments, as a gift to the world from Japan. Thank you.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

M'mm, yes. As I said above, I intend to watch this one again and again - I can't begin to count how many times I've watched Seven Samurai. My first impression of Chusingura was of the visual beauty presented to us, and the care taken in the characterisation; more familiarity and more thought will be required before I can form a view on the themes or make an intelligent comparison. They are very different stories told from opposite ends of the spectrum. I may very likely agree with you in the end, but I think it deserves some consideration.

A couple of preliminary thoughts in response to yours -

"the reactionary themes of Chushingura (blind loyalty to your leaders unto death, the importance of avenging their honor, etc.)"

Well, those are implicit in the story, which is after all true; the only real choice the director has is to make a film on the subject, or not. A film which presented the story without subscribing to those values would be a) very odd and b) professional suicide, I would think. Seven Samurai is fiction, and brings a modern sensibility to its themes of humanity and self-sacrifice for social good.

"times of war, nationalist-militarist fervor, and mass mobilization. "

I'm not sure what was going on internally in Japan in 1962; economic recovery, denial, coming to terms? No warlike or militaristic fervour that I know of. One of the commentators seems to think that it was made as an explanation/apology to the world - possible?

I haven't seen the Mizoguchi version, or the recent one; time to seek them out, I think.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] 17 years ago

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[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

No, I agree. Look at the nobility of the final scene - we are invited to stand in awe and admiration, as the townspeople are doing. No ironic intention at all. You just have to buy in to the values given, at least for the duration of the film.

Wait there while I watch it again - probably more than once - and I'll reflect some more.

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] 17 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Suzume-san 17 years ago

Oh, hey, you'd better go and make a cup of coffee or something. This may take some time...

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] dimensional_dan 16 years ago

7.6/10 is way to generous. <Insert disclaimer here to prove that I'm not a dumb ass action junkie> The movie was boring. It could have been so much better. Heck I love falling lotus blossoms as much as the next guy (or perhaps more) but really nothing happens in this movie, the action is all at arms length and none of the characters are really developed, which is absurd given the amount of time spend on nothing.

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Well, where's the disclaimer? You haven't proved it to me, Dan.

Nothing happens, eh? The story begins with a minor dispute over court protocol and ends with a midnight attack, mass slaughter followed by mass suicide. What kind of thing happens in the films you like?

Kambei of the Descending Gormful Bedafter Gumi.

[–] estash-1 16 years ago

The Chushingura is one of the great epics in Japanese culture. The Tale of the 47 Ronin is a true story, it was quickly adopted into a theatrical form and is probably the most produced epic in all of Japan. The original Chushingura was an 11 act kabuki play...this is why even a three hour movie feels like it is missing a lot. However, this story is so well know in Japan that the entire play need not be told. This movie does lack certain story elements that would make it more accessible to a Western audience but that is not who they were producing it for. All in all, it is easily up there with Seven Samurai and Zatoichi, and vastly more culturally important.

[–] Suzume-san 16 years ago

Quite so, Estash. I think the problem with all jidai-geki is that it attracts youngsters who just want to watch swordplay and slashing; the poor little chaps can't cope with the complex narrative and luxurious pace of a magnificent film such as this. It doesn't matter too much, I don't think; their incomprehension doesn't interfere with our enjoyment.

This is the only version I've seen so far, it being the most readily available; have you seen any of the others and if so, how would you compare them?

[–] mac_alain 16 years ago

...have you seen any of the others and if so, how would you compare them?

They are two *completely different* films. This version just tells the story, whilst Mizoguchi goes in much, much deeper, his being a metaphysical treatment of the story. As I said, they are two different films. Personally, I rate Mizoguchi's version as one of the best things on celluloid.

Most film aficionados outgrow discussions of the "greatest films of all time." Not me. For more than a decade I've had three favorites. Stan Brakhage's "Arabics", a series of abstract silent films of perpetually shifting colors and shapes and spaces, is one; another is Roberto Rossellini's mystical, expansive personal documentary "India". And the third is Kenji Mizoguchi's two-part, four-hour "Genroku Chushingura" (usually translated as "The Loyal 47 Ronin of the Genroku Era")...

The above from: http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film/Reviews/47_ronin.htm#47

Some more reading here: http://filmref.com/directors/dirpages/mizoguchi.html#ronin