WHY GREEK CULTURE IS MORE IN POP CULTURE THAN PERSIAN??? - The 300 Spartans Discussion

There are plenty of answers to this very same question on the Alexander board.

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Because the greeks kicked their asses and sent persian culture into the backwater it is today. To the victor goes the spoils, including fame.

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[–] murad23 12 years ago

@safg. The law code of Cyrus is a fake. It is a known spurious translation and it is AFTER the tenets of Greek democracy. As far as Roads they were no persians invention since the Egyptians had them 1,500 years before Persia. And the Persians didnt "free the jews" since first they enslaved them. Persia worked on a vast slave system, whereas ofthe several hundred major Greek city states only a couplel had slavery as an economic basis.

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[–] ContinentalOp 7 years ago

Because the greeks kicked their asses and sent persian culture into the backwater it is today. To the victor goes the spoils, including fame.

Actually, Persian (Iran) remained a cultured, militarily-strong power for centuries, sometimes weakening, only to constantly make comebacks time and time again. They were a thorn in Rome's side for much of that Empire's history, never suffering Roman conquest and capturing or killing many of Rome's leaders. Emperor Valerian, captured by Shapur I after the battle of Edessa, actually died in Persian captivity.

Modern Iran is a backwater mostly due to US political meddling and the take-over of conservative elements (originally sponsored by the US-backed Pahlavi Shah) during the Iranian revolution.

This damned burg's getting me. If I don't get away soon I'll be going blood-simply like the natives.

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[–] oidiospan 19 years ago

it's true that the persians also developed currency,roadsystem etc.,but you must take in consideration that the greek civilization doesn't start from the time of Homer.i know that in schools and universities give more basis in classic age in Greece(golden age of Perikles etc...) but Greek civilization goes way back.read about the history of cyclades,minoan civilization,orxomeno and many other.you will find their achievements very very interesting.

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[–] gottajibboo4 19 years ago

also because we live in western civilization, whereas the persians are eastern, so to our historians, they are the "invaders"

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[–] MovieBro 19 years ago

Bring on the Persian history movies!and more greek/roman movies!

Hollywoods doing a good job at making me wanna see more Independent films.

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[–] esher45 19 years ago

.....Gates of Fires or even better (what I would call it)...
"Three days at Thermopylae". John Milius or Ridley Scott would be my director. Writer if still alive would be Robert Wise. I believe that M. Mann could do a very good job. That beautiful Gladiator field music played also in this Epic movie.

You guy's are very good on the subject, Credit to you!! Myself also believe two movies will probably be done over this fantastic human adventure...that related these bygone events...Bear in mind, these Athletics warriors were trained since aged seven (in average) they where superb Athletes...they could run ten miles (Remember the Battle of Marathon) fight and win a major battle!

Now, the Actors would have to be (like these Spartans) beautiful specimen of men
Tall, muscular (bring on these six packs) and most of all; suntanned with some
of them with their long blondish hair (not many beards here please, think of the female audience).

Here are my (and you would probably agree here) choices of actors...

Yes, Jim Caviezel has Xeones (the survivor, telling the account).

King Leonidas......(Too bad Clint Walker is not 40 anymore;-)Liam Neeson or
Tom Selleck either vice-versa with the role of Dienekes

Polynice goes to the Handsome Viggo Mortensen...the perfect gardian Warrior!

Alexandros......Antonio Sabatino (Calvin Klein)

Big Suicide....yes....Ralf Moeller (Six ten, 330lbs.) and the famous allied Thaspian General played by none other than Mr. Brad Pitt...and is great feathered helmut with piercing blue eyes gazing out of them...)

Famous Battle scene film in real life epic...no special effects here....scene has real and brutal has Braveheart! It will come soon enough....Yes indeed, an important event was lived back them that did change the course of history.
Au Plaisir, Esher45

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[–] Bad_Machine 19 years ago

Sorry to interrupt your wet daydream esher45, but lets leave Hollywood and Brad Pitt aside for a while. To start with, most men of that era were on average shorter than today, a tall Greek or Persian would be about 5ft7 to 5ft 9 with very few people being over 6ft in height. Secondary, do you have any historical concept of the realities of war especially in those days? Those guys used to fight huge military campaigns, WALKING or RIDING THOUSANDS of miles and fighting their way through (like Alexander's Greek Macedonian troops have done). They were superb athletes because otherwise they couldn't fight with the heavy weapons of that era (no teflon/titanium alloy reinforced equipment at that time...) And those weapons used to be bronze to start with, which makes them even heavier than the lighter iron ones that the Dorian Greeks firstly introduced to the region later on. These guys were super-fit, but not in your sense, with flowing golden hair and striking blue eyes... Those guys were super-fit because they had to be, otherwise they wouldn't survive the combination of fighting and hard trekking into inhospitable terrain. Any modern super-soldiers (like the UK's SAS or the US Delta Force etc) rely too much on modern equipment and technology and could never have the endurance and sheer willpower that drove those guys forward. Try walking from Greece to India and back without even a compass (which was invented much much later), demolishing the great Persian Empire along the way, and see if you're gonna look like Brad Pitt or Viggo Mortensen (who jump straight from the makeup chair to "action" when shooting a movie). The truth was much uglier than the Hollywood "romanticized" point of view...

Alex

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[–] kinetica 17 years ago

I wouldn't mind more cultural movies from the cultures themselves, as opposed to one culture making a movie about another culture.

But mostly you have charismatic montheist KINGS aka DIVINE RIGHT, and America gave up Divine Right when we threw the English King out, and developed our president... NOT a divine connection to GOD, as ALL people have that right... (Protestant) and that is the foundation of our "western Democracy" We are not directly related to Greece, we are the people who followed Jesus after Rome, and business people, and people looking to have room to work, raise a family AND NOT BE HASSLED... the other parts about a society where we have no say is not American. Greece was beaten by Rome, and so Greek and Latin were the languages of the Bible (as well as hebrew, but differences kept christianity in non-hebrew languages.

We respect Persia as the birth place of civilization between the Tigris and Euphrates. We have grown up away from that and on our own. So we are teaching them what we have learned since leaving them, NOT what we knew from them before we left.

Ticks Ticks thousands of ticks, and not one blessed TOCK among them!

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[–] georgekara-1 19 years ago

how would you like an eight foot lakonian spear up your behind - Mede ?

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[–] lbradford47 19 years ago

I've read historians say the pivotal point of western democracy was the 3 days at Thermopaylae. Had Xerxes been successful his massive army would have rolled through Greece and burned every tablet or manuscript about democracy. It was born in Athens and saved at Salamis. Not to take anything away from the Persians. They made the first working battery. The Olympics started in Greece in 776BC and lasted 1200 years never interrupted, not even for war. Had I lived in those times I wouldn't face a Spartan for any reason unless I were a great bowman. In the USA high school and college teams have used warriors from the past...Trojans and Spartans.

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[–] thefakemccaw 18 years ago

University of Southern Californian Trojans.
Michigan State Univeristy Spartans.

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] Mythos_Ruler 18 years ago

Let's be fair though, the subjects of Persia were advanced in many ways (I speak specifically of Egypt and Babylon), architecturally, astronomically, and mathematically. Persia itself, however, at that time was merely a harsh plateau used for grazing and minimal farming. The Persians themselves contributed nothing much, except (generally) enlightened rule.

"The greatest lie God ever pulled was convincing the world he exists."

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] DrEinstein 18 years ago

I had better write something to counter all this "master race" drivel some of the pro-Western responses have spouted.

Western Europe and the US are slanted towards Greece because the people who make these movies are more closely related to the Greeks than Persians. The Persian Empire was fabulous, but Westerners are largely ignorant of their society and achievements. Conversely, they generalize Greece as an enlightened democracy. This is especially ridiculous in the case of Sparta.

Many of the advancements we attribute to Greeks really developed on the western coast of Turkey by the Ionians, members of the Greek diaspora. And they weren't developed in a vacuum. Knowledge circulated all over the eastern Mediterranean and Middle East. Persia, no exception, was a hotbed of science and discovery. The region remained so right through the European "Dark Ages" and on into the European Renaissance(s).

Many of the emperors of ancient Persia are now considered humane and tolerant in Western historical studies. They allowed a lot of independence in their subject lands. They mainly expected monetary tribute. This was unusual for the era. Cyrus the Great is especially lauded.

There needs to be a good movie that accurately depicts ancient Persain culture so Westerners can learn something.

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[–] unreal_uk 18 years ago

Yes, this idea that Greece was some sort of united democracy has me worried about that new "300" movie. I can't help but feel that they'll try and portray the battle as some kind of parable of the modern U.S and its 'struggle' to preserve freedom and democracy. I say leave modern politics out of it, just tell the damned story.

Mind you, that's asking a bit much from a modern film based on a bloody graphic novel.

Jump on the Sin City bandwagon why don't you. It's not like the ACTUAL history is that interesting is it...jeez.

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[–] feodoric 9 years ago

I'm afraid you are on the wrong thread. The movie here is "The 300 Spartans" (1962), not "300" (2007), which is the one based on your graphic novel. The present thread refers to a movie that was realized a good 36 years prior to the eponymous graphic novel in question on which the 2007 movie was based. Learn how to read before jumping to quick conclusions.

Is it safe? What is safe? Is it safe? Yes, very safe? Is it safe? No, not at all! Is it safe? Aaahh!

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[–] Mithrandir-Olorin888 16 years ago

Yes Persia was very Progressive, but Greece is generally considered the Originator of the idea of electing Leaders.

"Introduce a little Anarchy

Upset the Established order

And everything becomes Chaos"

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[–] WeAintFoundShin 11 years ago

For most whites the Eastern world is seen as less advanced and more alien.

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[–] prototype1981 18 years ago

Since Greece influenced the West, I am guessing that is why they are more in pop culture. I think also that Greek Philosophy, Literature, Art, Mathematics etc don't get as much praise as they should - especially when looking at all the praise the Romans get. Some of the more famous Greek Gods are more commonly known by their Latin names - Neptune for Poseidon, Cupid for Eros etc.

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[–] Master_Lo 18 years ago

DrEinstein is right. We admire greeks because they are the cradle of the western civilization, if I may say so. I think the persian culture and achievements should be credited with much bigger enthusiasm. Especially here, where I live.
It's obvious that the national education center is worshipping the hellenic culture because of its close connection with the creation of democracy.
I love Greece, but I also would have liked to see the other side of the coin. Right now I'm too lazy for doing my own researches. Some day!

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[–] 18 years ago

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[–] monkeyblood 18 years ago

cuz they were white-er. sad but true.

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[–] Darkness_for_all 18 years ago

Coz mama america hates iran and loves greece simple as that!
By the way am from the middle east and i would like to tell that we have great and long history. Middel east is mix of cultures not by one culture!

and do not mix persians with arabs persians are different from arabs. for example, some one mentiond egyptians when he was speaking of persian culture. Egyptians are arabs but not persians. but lol both sides are muslims. but different races

persians = speak persian
egyptians = speak arabic
#they are are like 24 arabian country such as SAUDIA ARABIA and United arab emirates
and # they are more than 30 islamic country like iran and indonesia

cheers

''Do not stand between the darcula and his prey, feel the power of the Darkness''

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