MovieChat Forums > The Lucy Show (1962) Discussion > Viv isn't very likable

Viv isn't very likable

posted 11 years ago by sjbradford
21 replies | jump to latest

Today I was watching the episode "Lucy Gets Into Politics". At the end of the episode, when the band was playing, Viv winks at Mooney and starts dancing with him and is genuinely having a good time. It stood out for me, because it's one of the few times Viv seems to be having a good time or is happy. It made me realize that in general, Vivian Bagley is such a grumpy complainer. She's completely different from Ethel Mertz, who seemed like she'd be a lot of fun to be around.

Contrast this to Lucy Carmichael, who was very similar to Lucy Ricardo (at least in the first few seasons of TLS, when the I Love Lucy writers were still in charge).

[–] MyMovieTVRomance 10 years ago

That's a fair way to describe her. But, there's still something magical about when Lucy and Vivian are together, especially when Vivian is defending Lucy in some way or covering for her. And, the way they understood each other is so ideal! It's like they could read each other's minds…

They had a sparkling chemistry, which is the main reason I like this show better than I Love Lucy (along with the fact that both she and Lucy got to be at their most glamorous in this show – whereas they looked frumpy in I Love Lucy). Plus, in this show, they got to live together – so I'm able to indulge in my fantasies that they were the two most important people in each other's lives, ha ha!

In the other show, they had the husbands to steal the spotlight, so I can't dream as much as I do with this one. With this program, I gladly let my imagination run away with me... It's not about politics, it's not about sexuality, it's not about any of those annoying subjects---it's about romantic love – which is a completely different entity.

There's something romantic about the chemistry the two of them shared, and I loved seeing them together. And when one of them puts her hand on the other one's shoulder, I get butterflies! It's like I can feel the energy between them – and it's a great feeling! They had a such delightfully comfortable camaraderie.

So, while by herself Vivian may not seem like the most likable person, I can overlook some of her quirks knowing that she's the perfect partner for Lucy. I love her so much in fact that I practically resent the rest of the shows that don't have her in it, because when she isn't there, it's just not as yummy. I literally miss her in the episodes that she is not on.

Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!

[–] gbennett5 9 years ago

Lol!! "Frumpy??" Ball looked far more youthful and beautiful in most
of ILL than she does on TLS, which featured her over-teased hair
and obnoxious voice. Furthermore, the writing and - frankly - the
PERFORMANCES on ILL are far superior.

There are a few stand-out episodes of TLS, but it pales big-time next
to ILL. There is a REASON ILL is legendary and remembered by the
general public today, whereas TLS has gone the corny, dated way of
"Petticoat Junction" - a show strictly of its time.

[–] MyMovieTVRomance 9 years ago

Glad you found my post so laugh-out-loud funny. Have a nice day.

Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!

[–] tinkerbell_jonna 8 years ago

I dunno if Lucy and Viv could do well in a relationship, mainly b/c they are both so similar, and both are head strong and very domineering. In other words, they both want to RUN THE SHOW.... I think they would fight all the time.

[–] MyMovieTVRomance 8 years ago

I dunno if Lucy and Viv could do well in a relationship, mainly b/c they are both so similar, and both are head strong and very domineering. In other words, they both want to RUN THE SHOW.... I think they would fight all the time.

It's true that Lucy and Viv were both headstrong and stubborn, but a lot of times, such stubbornness can lead to great chemistry. They clashed but they also mashed. And Viv was more often the follower, which is exactly what Lucy wanted and needed. She loves knowing that despite Vivian's grumbles, she could always count on her. That's more than a lot of couples can say – straight or otherwise.

And if you watch their chemistry in certain episodes, you will see how much fun they were having playing off each other, and how sentimental they sound by the end of the show. Of course they weren't playing lesbians per se, there are certain episodes where they were just a hop, skip, and a jump away from it. The chemistry was so, that you can almost scoop it with a spoon! It was such that, if they had been allowed to play it up a little more back then, a lingering look and hug between those two would've been off the charts hot! We already get an indication of that, from what little affection they do show to each other. Can you imagine if they were allowed to go further?

Just as an aside, I remember reading an article the talked about how back in the day, people were suspecting Lucy and Viv were involved in that way, somehow, in real life. Lucy was aware of these rumors and left them off, and said "if people want to believe it, let them believe it." She wasn't worried about denying it, and according to one article, Vivian's unpublished manuscripts talked about the feeling she had of Lucy, and how she wondered if maybe they went beyond friendship – and she even asked her therapist about whether her feelings for Lucy were normal, according to said memoirs. So, maybe there's something to this chemistry we see play out on the screen.

Here's a blog-post about it:
http://ohnotheydidnt.livejournal.com/43938151.html

Please excuse typos/funny wording; I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!

[–] InherentlyYours 8 years ago

well, MyMovieTVRomance
You do go on about "chemistry", and miss some facts about the shows, while rambling about how "yummy" the ladies were together, and claiming there were no husbands to steal the spotlight. Into ladies, a lot?

Is why your sig line says : "I use speech-recognition that doesn't always recognize!"

[–] pjpurple-1 8 years ago

There was a bit of harshness in Vivian Bagley. But I could put that down to her being a middle-aged divorcee who's forced into living with her friend instead of her own home. She probably got a really lousy divorce settlement. lol No doubt she was devoted to Lucy but it probably grated on Viv that she didn't have a home of her own.

No matter what her personality, Vivian Vance was still one of the BEST second bananas in the business, right up there with Art Carney.

[–] SelenaQP 8 years ago

Ball looked far more youthful and beautiful in most
of ILL than she does on TLS, which featured her over-teased hair
and obnoxious voice. Furthermore, the writing and - frankly - the
PERFORMANCES on ILL are far superior.

There are a few stand-out episodes of TLS, but it pales big-time next
to ILL. There is a REASON ILL is legendary and remembered by the
general public today, whereas TLS has gone the corny, dated way of
"Petticoat Junction" - a show strictly of its time.

I agree with all of this. Lucy was just simply adorable in I Love Lucy. Her outfits were cuter in that one.

Don't play games with a girl who can play better.

[–] LolaVerdon (130) 5 years ago

Wow! I never thought of them in that way. 😗😮😮

[–] tinkerbell_jonna 8 years ago

In my mind it was kinda the opposite. Viv seemed a little younger and more "hip" than Ethel.... I always thought Ethel could be a little spiteful.

As far as Lucy goes... I think Lucy Ricardo a lot of times intentionally made trouble and could be spiteful, BUT Lucy Carmichael seemed to be more of a victim, trouble seemed to follow her around.

[–] gbennett5 8 years ago

LR was a complex, fascinating PERSON. LC was a clown. There is very
little nuance to Ball's work on TLS. All she did was bellow her lines
(which she clearly read off cue cards in the later years). I doubt
Ball took direction well by Jack Donahue. At this point, she ran the
town and didn't need to listen to anyone. In the '50s, Ball trusted
Desi, Jess O and director William Asher. And it shows in the work.

[–] SelenaQP 8 years ago

LR was a complex, fascinating PERSON. LC was a clown.

Lol, can't really argue with that. In fact, Lucy Carmichael felt pretty much a reincarnation of the simply more iconic Lucy Ricardo.

Don't play games with a girl who can play better.

[–] JesseJamesDean 8 years ago

Strange that you mentioned that because I think it's quite the opposite. Lucille Ball comes across as crass, demanding, demeaning, and just down right rude at times. It can be spotted more in Here's Lucy, but she definitely has her shrill moments in The Lucy Show. Friends and I have discussed this show and Here's Lucy, and believe that they won't hold up to time like the original I Love Lucy. Lucy does the same old stunts and gags that she's done in the past. Someone comes up behind her, she screams. Poor Gale Gordon is constantly getting some type of liquid poured on him. Times have changed and these two shows will be seen more as a sad attempt to capture past glory than being brilliant comedy shows. In the 90's or before if someone would have asked me who the best female comedian of all time was, I of course would have said "Lucy of course!", but looking back and knowing more about how Lucille Ball did her shows, all scripted, and she also admits that she doesn't "Think Funny"...that's from a Barbara Walters interview in 79, I have to say now that I think Carol Burnett was the true physical comedian of that era.

[–] gbennett5 8 years ago

How are we differing? You're only backing up what I wrote.

[–] JesseJamesDean 8 years ago

I responded to the the OP. Not you. Didn't even read what you wrote. Viewing all the post on this subject "view as thread", you'll see that my comment was lined up with the OP. But I've read it now, and it seems many are starting to change their views on Lucy.

[–] gbennett5 8 years ago

Look, when you reply to the OP (or anyone), you reply AFTER their comment,
not 13 lines down after someone else. Learn to do it.

[–] JesseJamesDean 8 years ago

And before shooting off your mouth. Which you're notorious on here, view this topic in "thread mode" and you'll see that I did..I said that in the last post that you promptly ignored because of a childish need to have the last word. The only reason I responded this time was to tell you that and have no inclination to respond to such a childlike person again. Don't like it? go pound sand in your sandbox.

[–] 8 years ago

[deleted]

[–] gbennett5 8 years ago

Your first time tough, Jesse?

[–] monterey59 8 years ago

Oh, God: in HERE'S LUCY she was pretty unbearable and not funny at all

Even larks and katydids are, supposed by some, to dream

[–] pj72 8 years ago

She was just as likable as Alexander "Scotty" Scott from "I Spy."