Schizophrenia would be my first guess...but the movie never really spells it out. MPD? Maybe bipolar?
Anyone read the screenplay or know any more information??
(it reminds me a bit of "I Never Promised...Rose Garden" in the way Korin speaks of the "2 different worlds" she lives in on several occasions....
Thanks.
As Bergman put it in interviews, "her illness is a free construction built on some knowledge fo how schizophrenic illness may be manifested". So it's built on schizophrenia, which is in itself an umbrella concept for a number of syndromes and symptomes with some common points, and with obscure causes.
Most people's image of schizophrenia is above all the "split personality": the patient would show strikingly different personal traits and wishes at different times, and he'll feel that there are voices from inside talking in his head. Now, this isn't a standard picture that would fit just about anyone who is diagnosed with schizophrenia. I know fairly well a few people who have this diagnose and my dad was a psychiatrist, so I've had some occasion to talk this over with both doctors and the mentally ill guys themselves, and most of these do not show the classical clear-cut image with well-defined "inner voices" and sudden jumps into a wildly diferent personality. As a possible image of a schizophrenic outbreak, I'd say Karin is realistic, while The Prince of Tides is blatantly unrealistic in its image of doctors, patients and psychosis.
Thanks for the informed response.
Prince of Tides was a terrible movie; one that I was impressed with only when I first saw it as a child. I once tried to read the book- it was a horrible piece of crap...
Karin definetly has attributes to that of the main charcter (name?) in "Rose Garden" I wish they had more books and films about this particular illness- it is a fascinating subject; especially since so many popular drugs nowadays mimic the signs of this very illness!
I have a love for this plot: young woman returns from the mental hospital to the husband/boyfriend/family who may or may not be intentionally causing her breakdown(s). There were a slew of 50's B movies (some much lower in the alphabet than "B", actually! ;))with similar situations. This one seemed very realistic in the family relationships and the condition of the (ex-)patient. As a Christian, I am fascinated by the "spider" God depiction in Karin's vision. I think this is a question that occurs to many believers: what if there is a God, but (S)He is horrible? What if our reward for serving/loving this God is a lifetime of what we would call hell, not a heavenly reward? A dark night of the soul indeed.
shareI thought this was actually the weakest aspect of the film. I've known a number of people with schizophrenia and none of them behaved anything like Karin. OK her illness is more a metaphor than an actual medical condition, but even so a bit of realism wouldn't have hurt.
I think one of the best performances of mental illness on film is Richard Gere's bipolar in the (otherwise flawed) "Mr Jones". The most realistic schizophrenic would probably have to be Catherine Deneuve in "Repulsion".
And no-one really thinks schizophrenia means 'split personality' these days, do they?
Regarding the nature of God, was it Woody Allen who said he probably wasn't evil, just a persistent under-achiever?
I used to want to change the world. Now I just want to leave the room with a little dignity.
Schizophrenia does not mean a split personality disorder. There actually a very few number of people suffering from MPD. I have bipolar 1 and weekly visit a group for people suffering from mental illness. So there are no signs of Bipolar or schizophrenia. I have seen a few people with major depression that they develop psychotic features.
+_+
My thoughts too. She was in perfect command during the casual dialogues with her family, she didn't seem distressed or actually worried when her disease was not evoked. Not that it should distract people from watching this beautiful movie, but as you may imply, the somehow inexpressive acting reduces a bit the dramatic tension.
Additionally, some equivocal reactions left me wondering, like her and her boyfriend's contempt to her father's gifts from Switzerland, or the apparent indifference of her father after he learns she has peeped into his diary. Another of Bergman's family drama with strong psychological elements, From the Life of Marionettes (1980), albeit considered minor and rather different in scope, worked vastly better as far as I am concerned.
Also, it could be argued that it wasn't safe to leave her all this time alone with Minus, if the latter was also considered emotionally unstable (albeit to a lesser extend), couldn't it ?
Psychosis caused by reading Bergman's screenwriting I presume. HA HA!
shareI'm not a doctor but I would say Karin has bipolar disorder I, based on my experience. God delusions and commanding voices are common. In 2011 she would be treated with drugs and I wouldn't expect her manic episodes to be so frequent, nor would she spend the rest of her life in hospital. Bergman may have said schizophrenia was his inspiration, but 1-he wasn't a doctor, and 2-the mental health field has come a long way in 40 years.
I was disappointed that Karin's mental health wasn't in more focus, but I understand it wasn't what the movie was about.
It's definitely a dissociative disorder because she states "that she can't stand switching between two worlds" and chooses to rather remain in the "insanity". Based on the hallucinatory manifestations of "spider-god" I'd guess it's schizophrenia.
Who will take care of this child? God, devil or nothingness? Nothingness perhaps?share
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yes there are common factors between Karin and Deborah in "I never promised you a rose garden." Maybe the visions and hallucinations are, for both women, an emotional defense against the unloving nature of the world that surrounds them. Deborah's visions of Yr started when she had to endure the pain of a tumor operation at age 5 and her mother wasnt there to comfort her, then she was n bullied at an anti Semitic camp. then she was an "outsider" in school bec of her artistic temperament. So--in despair--she created her own world. So did the unloved Karin who was emotionally abandoned after the death of her mother, with an unloving detached father , a kid brother who0 could not handle the situation he was in and eventaually a husband who was inadequate to deal with her increasing depression/instability--note when he treats her as a pet ("little Katya"). Karin eventually finds "love" in the arms of her brother, but, intellectually she knows its the wrong kind of love--her search for God's love went sour (spider like) on her. But IMHO at least, Karin WAS capable of a noble level of love--she had the strength to tear herself away from Martin, Minus and even David and seek re-hospitalization rather than remain with her family and have them watch her degeneration.
Maybe therss some optimism after all. Karins encounter with Minus may eventually prove to be cathartic and with the help of Edgar the unseen but mentioned hospital psychiatrist, she may realize that her quest for love was misguided and then true threapy can begin. Karl Menninger espousee this "hit bottom as a prequel to a cure" theory
I would be VERY VERY interested in some feedback on this