MovieChat Forums > Judgment at Nuremberg (1961) Discussion > Chilling scene....

Chilling scene....

posted 12 years ago by outsdrfilm
16 replies | jump to latest

It is hard to pick out one scene in this amazing film that stands out, but one always sends hard chills down my spine. It comes right after the courtroom scene where Richard Widmark testifies about the conditions in the concentration camps, accompanied by actual uncensored footage shot at the end of the war. The next scene focuses on the four accused nazi judges seated at a dinner table in prison, and the conversation turns to "how could it be possible?" to kill millions of people in the camps. One of the judges turns to a table behind him and asks a character named Pohl (played by Otto Waldis) how the killings could have been possible. Pohl, who apparently has first hand knowledge of the camps, turns to the others and says, without any emotion in his voice "It's possible. You mean, technically? It all depends on your facilities. Say you have two chambers that accommodate 2000 people apiece. Figure it out. It's possible to get rid of 10,000 in a half hour. You don't even need guards to do it. You can tell them they are going to take a shower, and then instead of the water, you turn on the gas. It's not the killing that was the problem. It's disposing of the bodies - that's the problem." He then turns around and continues eating. As disturbing as the actual film footage of the camps was, this very matter of fact description of the technicalities of killing is, to me, terrifying.
Another extremely well acted scene in a film that has so many.

[–] rayshaw44 12 years ago

Well said. Yes, the matter of fact-ness was chilling.

[–] iPadCary 12 years ago

Best part of the movie.

Everything else is flowery speeches & shopworn clichês.

Then, all of a sudden out of nowhere, comes this guy, rubbing crumbs off of his fingers, as he gives the plain nuts & bolts description of something that, literally, is unimaginable.

Then, as pointed out earlier, he goes back to eating his meal without missing a beat.

And his attitude & deportment: wow, just -- wow ....

B .... I .... L-L-T .... E-T-L-E-YYYYYYY Bill Tetley!

[–] cwade22 10 years ago

I respected his honesty, but it wasn't chilling. It's not like he looked every victim in the eyes and killed them personally. He ORDERED others to gas them. He probably lived far from the camps he was over. He only came to camps probably to inspect the facilities and figure out operations. He wasn't chilling, he was talking like a businessman. He even said "technical," which it was. He probably never saw their faces before they went to take showers. How is this DIFFERENT from Our Generals ordering soldiers into hot zones to be Slaughtered? It's the SAME THING, as the generals are in a comfortable office, drinking hot cocoa, ordering thousands to possibly die in battle. Most of these generals have never seen battle. Similar to most CAMP personnel leaders, the generals we know today, are as Cowardly and pathetic. How was it chilling, though? I have Aspergers and I lack emotion and empathy with some things, but I didn't find it chilling, at all.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kstenbch 9 years ago

In addition, soldiers going into battle are armed. The victims in the Holocaust were ordinary civilians and were not armed. In fact, by the time they were killed in the gas chambers, the Jews had long ago been stripped of their property and been herded into ghettos, just like their ancestors had been forced to live in ghettos outside the towns in the Middle Ages. In those Holocaust-era ghettos, Jews were forced to live, often 1 million in a space built for 10,000. Many died in the ghettos of starvation and disease. many were severely weakened. Most were exterminated like rats with Zyklon B upon arrival in Death Camps such as Auscwitz or Treblinka. The women were exterminated, mostly at a Death Camp called Majdanek. Over 1-5 million children were exterminated in the gas chambers during the Holocaust. The comparison between soldiers in battle and victims of genocide is absurd, unethical, and immoral. By the way, many Generals have seen battle. Throughout the history of the U.S.has hardly gone more than a generation without being involved in some kind of war, where many of the generals gained experience in battle. We do have an all volunteer military now, and I am a veteran. You don't get to be a general without having risen through the ranks and seeing combat. Now you may have a point in that many generals have forgotten what combat is like. However, most generals are themselves following orders and drawing up plans for conflicts that they don't initiate. How about reserving some of that anger for the politicians who start wars. Bush started two wars. Hitler started WWII and used it to cover the Holocaust, and Stalin and the U.S. started the Korean War and Vietnam. Finally, the Commandants of the Nazi Concentration Camps were S.S. soldiers who lived right on the Camp. They did not live far removed from it and were very involved in the running, the killing, and the other day-to-day operations of the camps. The Holocaust movies and documentaries are not making this stuff up. There were and are those who did survive. There are witnesses, including soldiers who worked in these camps who witnessed these things as they happened. There were soldiers and others who filmed what happened, including at liberation. The footage in Judgement at Nuremberg was 100% real footage taken by soldiers and armies that liberated the 1000s of Concentration Camps in 1945. I myself have spoken to some of the liberators and the survivors. . . .

[–] necoleman 9 years ago

I am formerly known as HillieBoliday....Member since May 2006.

Thanks...kstenbch....for that very informative dissertation. What you've shared really helps to get pass the overwhelming pain and disgust; and learn the historical truths about the atrocities of the Holocaust.

"OOhhhooo....I'M GON' TELL MAMA!"

[–] dmdiamond 9 years ago

What most people would find chilling about this behavior and dialogue of what this fictionalized character represents is what really did happen not just in Nazi Germany but in all of the Occupied territories where these policies were implemented and carried out...There were thousands of people like this character whom were employed and received a paycheck to do a job of murdering innocent people. There was a total "disconnect" from the machinery that they were a willing part of..People made career choices to work in places like these...so they can in casual conversation discuss the facilities and how efficient these killing centers were.

[–] bhoover247 9 years ago

The character had fully bought in to the position the German army had given him. He had no emotion about it because he was doing the job he was assigned. This is what is so insane about war. The same could be said about the Americans who dropped the atomic bombs on the two cities in Japan. Thousands of civilians are burned to death by their actions. It's not their fault they are just doing their duty. I couldn't do it, but many could and continue to.The true monsters are the politicians who start these wars.

[–] kstenbch 9 years ago

Ehhh! Wrong! The soldiers who dropped the atomic bombs over Nagasaki and Hiroshima were NOT involved in the tests of those atomic bombs. They did not know how bad it would be. They weren't even told that what they were doing could end the war and save lives. The mission was top secret, and no atomic bombs had ever been dropped or tested on people before. If you'll recall the movie correctly, the man who made the speech was supposed to be a man who worked in a concentration camp as an S.S. guard. he volunteered for the duty. He was given liquor and well paid. He was lied to and told it was his patriotic duty. he was also in prison in this movie. he was in prison for the same or similar crimes against humanity. It was the prison where they held the prisoners who had been on trial and were awaiting execution or were serving sentences for their crimes against humanity, peace, and war crimes, including torture. The German people of the time chose to do what they did. They did know what was going on. Most did not speak out about it. In all of Nazi occupied Europe, there were less than 3,500 Gestapo Agents, not nearly enough to keep everyone silent, and not nearly enough to FORCE even every German to comply with them. Ordinary Germans went along with it willingly. Few spoke out, and few did anything about it. Most were silent bystanders, and were accomplices complicit with Hitler and the S.S. NEVER BE A BYSTANDER!

[–] bhoover247 9 years ago

The fact remains that when you drop bombs over cities you know you are killing women, children and old people. The soldier is doing his duty. He has been indoctrinated into the belief that the enemy is evil and he is to follow orders no matter what his personal beliefs are. It is not a critism just a fact. The S.S. had been indoctrinated the same way. To him the Jews were the enemy and killing them was doing his duty.

[–] joeparkson 9 years ago

The atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not comparable in any way to the Death camps.

The Japanese civilians supported the hideous regime which invaded and murdered Chinese and which launched the unprovoked attack on Pearl Harbor.

Many of those civilians had sons in the armed forces, so I find it hard to believe they didn't know what their country was doing.

The Jews were murdered because they were Jews, not because they had participated in any way in actions against Germany.

Many Jews were veterans of the first World War and fought in the German Army.

Soy 'un hijo de la playa'

[–] Maegnas 9 years ago

The German people of the time chose to do what they did. They did know what was going on. Most did not speak out about it. In all of Nazi occupied Europe, there were less than 3,500 Gestapo Agents, not nearly enough to keep everyone silent, and not nearly enough to FORCE even every German to comply with them. Ordinary Germans went along with it willingly. Few spoke out, and few did anything about it. Most were silent bystanders, and were accomplices complicit with Hitler and the S.S. NEVER BE A BYSTANDER!

You sir have my thanks!! I could never have said it better (and believe me, I wanted to!). Again, thanks!!

Cute and cuddly boyz!!

[–] rrb_1 9 years ago

I'm sure you're both out there right now campaigning for Black Lives Matter.

Or are you just another BYSTANDER who likes feeling good by pointing fingers?

[–] darkavenger77 8 years ago

The German people of the time chose to do what they did. They did know what was going on. Most did not speak out about it.

Great point. A man of that time was Pastor Martin Niemoller. Niemoller was a German born in 1892 and is best known for writing a piece called "First They Came". It details how apathy kept citizens from speaking out when certain members of German society were targeted by the government:

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

He initially supported Hitler, but when the government took control of the church, he changed his mind. He was imprisoned for 8 years until the end of the war.

In a constitutional republic, which is what Germany was circa 1932, the rights of the minority are to be protected against the will of the majority. Pure democracy is mob rule. Note that the Reichstag Fire Decree of 1933 suspended parts of the German Constitution. Republicans and Democrats in the US have passed laws that directly conflict with our Bill of Rights. As a result, the have suspended parts of our Constitution for so-called security.

These rights can only be protected if someone does something when they are violated. If enough people look the other way then it is easier to repeat the behavior. Once the laws are in place an unchallenged for a long enough period of time, they are nearly impossible to get off the books.

Ignoring politics doesn't mean politics will ignore you.
-Pericles paraphrased in <100 characters

[–] rrb_1 9 years ago

OP: if you think that's chilling, watch 2001's "Conspiracy" with Kenneth Brannagh, about the Wannsee Conference. It makes the JAN scene that bothered you seem like something from Mary Poppins - seriously.

[–] GoodSOVeryVeryGood 8 years ago

He then turns around and continues eating. As disturbing as the actual film footage of the camps was, this very matter of fact description of the technicalities of killing is, to me, terrifying.

The banality of evil