Actually, earlier in the film, the root of all the scandal was a conversation overheard by Mary's roommates. It was a conversation between Ms. Dobie (Shirley MacLaine) and her aunt (Miriam Hopkins). These were some of the lines (as I know them) that were taken very seriously and spun by Mary to tell the biggest lie I've ever heard in a film:
AUNT: "You are very much possessive with the people around you," "this is unnatural"
Later, there was a scene between Miriam Hopkins and Mrs. Tilford (Fay Bainter). this was shot while Miriam was packing up her things after Ms. Dobie asked her aunt to go away because of the things that Miriam Hopkins said to her. Mrs. Tilford was already investigating on the lie that Mary told her, and she confirmed the lie with Miriam's words.
AUNT: "Sure, that woman has an insane devotion [to Karen]"
That ignited the scandal.
For my part, it seems that Shirley MacLaine has never known that she was a gay, for she always thought that her friendship and extremely close relationship with Karen was just friendship. However, when the lie broke out, she finally was opened to the fact that she indeed loved Karen. She was not influenced by the lie. Her unconscious love for Karen is noticeable with her defiance to James Garner's character when he said that Karen and him would be married. When the lie broke out, she finally knew the truth and, in guilt of her destruction of Karen's life, as well as hers, she took her own life to ease the guilt of destroying their lives and her kept lesbianism.
All right Mr. de Mille, I'm ready for my close-up...
Regards, THE GODFATHER
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thegr8defender
19 years ago
You know, I'm a straight woman, and even I'm offended by your repeated use of the phrase "a gay". Either she's "gay" or she's "a gay person/woman". Calling someone "a gay" makes them sound like less of a person. That's just my opinion, though.
Oh, and I think Shirley MacLaine is amazing in this film!
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foster-29
18 years ago
I find your remarks interesting, and I think you have a valid point. But the fact that you identify yourself as a 'straight' woman is kind of contradictive to your argument, if I understand you correctly. That is, as if by 'straight' (implied by the term itself) you mean correct, right and or better than 'not straight.'
Idenity is a double-edged sword. On one hand, yes, it is hurtful and dehumanizing to classify someone solely on the basis of their sexuality. On the other hand, since I believe there is nothing 'wrong' with loving someone of the same sex, to identify as 'gay' in the face of discrimination is liberating and affirming.
Classifications are virtually impossible to avoid, but certainly care must be used in how we apply them, that is, we must ask "what is the intention of our typification?" Are we trying to subjugate and dominate another person or repsect and edify them?
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ijonesiii
18 years ago
I agree that what happens in the course of the film helps Martha come to terms with what she is but not Karen.
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