Ponder this: Is Karen gay?

Certainly a good point...I've always thought the same thing. At the end when Audrey is walking away, she is smiling...of course this doesn't me anything but I would think William Wyler wanted Audrey to smile at the end to make the audience think...Good question though.

If you've seen The Celluloid Closet, Shirley Maclain says that her nor Audrey ever discussed the Lesbian aspect of the movie and Shirley goes on to explain the whole seen where Martha tells Karen the truth...therefore Martha was a lesbian.

No, Audrey was apparently completely unsqueamish about the whole idea of the film so I don't think she would fear for her reputation if Karen was a lesbian. It's controversial, yes, but from what I hear, Audrey was not even remotely afraid of what people would think of the story the film told.

~Jo

I love Jesus !
Audrey Hepburn <3 You are missed.

She didnt look that in love with him actually, whos to say she didnt imagine she was straight because thats all people are shown their whole lives? She definitely seemed to be conflicted after realizing that women can be together. Id just say they are both bi

I think that Karen comes away realizing that Martha, not her fiance, was the one who truly loved her...

I think this is an excellent point. I never thought of that before, but it is plain to see that Joe really didn't care for her as much as one would think... I think that's one of the many subtexts in the movie/play... It's interesting to ponder. Awesome comment.


sometimes you make me feel like i'm living at the edge of the world...

as an interesting sidenote: when they made the original movie version of "the children's hour" (in the 1930s I believe), they took out the lesbian element and did something along the lines of making mary say that martha loved joe cardin. basically they made it a love triangle story and called the movie "these three." and believe it or not, lillian hellman apparently didn't mind the changes because she felt the movie wasn't about homosexuality or sexuality at all for that matter, but rather the evil effect of gossip. so I think that whether karen loved martha back (and I agree with whoever said that she seemed pretty in love with joe) is actually almost beside the point. what matters is what the accusation itself forced them both to say and do.

I read this idea first in a book called "Audition" and having played the part of Martha onstage myself, I found it an interesting idea. When I was doing the production we never even acknowledged the fact that Karen may also be in love with Martha at one point, but I think it would make for an interesting ending if the audience found out that she did after she commits suicide. Maybe if I direct the play someday I will take it in that direction.

The "Censorship Commission" in Hollywood (I can't recall its real name but it did censor tone and content of Hollywood movies until the late 1960s), played a huge part in what we see on screen.

The original play and film script were much more explicit and ambiguous on the role of Karen's possible sexuality. During filming, the CC discovered the content of the film, and threatened to have it shut down unless the studio altered the script. The script was altered, but the director and actors decided to 'code' their acting to reflect the original script because they believed in the integrity of the original script.

Hence, what we see on screen regarding Karen at the ending could go either way since the coding is very subtle. (One could almost say the Children's Hour is comparable to Fried Green Tomatoes. Many people never realize that FGT is about a lesbian couple because the 'coding' is extremely subtle.)

As for Hepburn's views, it has been ages since I read her biographies. However, that said, even if she turned down a movie to play a lesbian in the 1970s doesn't mean she was anti-gay herself. Even today, many straight actors have gone on record saying they found it very disconcerting to play same-sex couplings even though they themselves are very suppportive of the gay community.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I firmly believe that Karen wasn't a lesbian. Towards the end when Karen decides to take a walk, I think her expression changes because she realizes what Martha meant when she said she wanted to "sleep." Karen understands that she meant suicide. I also don't think she left her fiance because she was a lesbian. I think that she came to realize that if she married him, it would become nearly impossible for him to ever find a job because of the rumors that would forever follow her no matter where they went. She spared him a life of unhappiness. She made this decision before the judge reversed his. Also, at the end when she walks away from the funeral, notice she doesn't talk to anyone. As if saying, you are all here trying to clean your conscience, but it's too little, too late. She was the only character who could walk away with dignity. I cried for Martha because no one deserves to feel the way she did.