MovieChat Forums > The Children's Hour (1961) Discussion > Why Did Karen Put on Martha's Jacket?

Why Did Karen Put on Martha's Jacket?


I’ve seen this movie many times and I never noticed an interesting detail that I caught when TMC aired the movie a couple of weeks ago. In the beginning of the movie, when Joe shows up to take Karen for a walk on Sunday evening, Karen comes into the kitchen, wearing her own long coat and announcing that she has brought Martha’s coat as well; she leaves it on the table. After Joe and Karen leave, Martha puts the coat now identified as hers—a short double-breasted car coat with metal buttons, a style very consistent with her “skirt and blouse” image--and walks to the end of the drive, where she leans against the gate.

In every instance in the film save one, Karen wears her own long coat: out with Joe, in Mrs. Tilford’s living room, and of course, at the funeral. The exception is when she leaves Martha’s room after the confession. In this instance, she leaves her own long coat hanging to the right of the door, and puts on the coat that has been previously identified as Martha’s and walks to the end of the drive, where she leans against the gate. Of course, she is still wearing the coat when she finally breaks down Martha’s door.

When As a writer, I think this detail is significant, and adds to the "what was Karen thinking? / feeling" discussion based on the following:

If you read the original play, which caused a huge scandal when it opened on Broadway (back in the 30’s; it was banned from being produced in several cities, including Boston), the ending is quite different. Martha still dies—gunshot, offstage—but she does it before Mrs. Tilford shows up. When Mrs. T does make her apology, Karen agrees to accept her help, and the play ends with them being rather chummy—a little odd, considering ol’ Martha’s laying dead on the floor in the next room. The same ending was in place in the restaging done on Broadway in the 50’s.

Moving the suicide to after Mrs. T’s apology is a big change. Martha’s character now knows that the lie has been uncovered, and she still kills herself—in her mind, she has even more reason; she’s outed herself and she didn’t have to; she may have driven Karen away unnecessarily. But most important, it allows Karen’s character to change. She throws Mrs. T out; she re-engages with Martha; she asks her to go away with her to someplace new…all quite different from the original.

For years I thought this change just bowed to broadening the cinematic possibilities, but this coat thing adds a whole new dimension. In this film, with sets and costumes so carefully constructed to identify mood and character, I find this intriguing. Did Hellman and John Michael Hayes, who wrote the screenplay when Hellman had to back out due to her partner’s illness, decide to throw in a subconscious attempt by Karen to try Martha’s world on? Is it a representation of Karen acting out her budding thoughts of taking Martha away? Finally, is this act, observed by Martha from her window, what pushes her over the edge, as, in her self-loathing, she sees that “pollution” circling Karen, even though it’s Karen’s choice to try?

Just curious as to whether or not anyone else caught this and what they think.

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I gotta hand it to you--I never noticed that. Since Shirely Maclaine is still alive and kicking, finding some way to ask her would resolve it because I don't think anyone else affiliated with this production is around to clear it up.
My own opinion? I think that Audrey Hepburn was much better able to run back to Martha's room wearing a jacket than a long coat. Also, from my own experience, women have no problem throwing on a friend's garment if it's at hand and these two lived together--it's conceivable they'd have thrown on each other's coats at times (but probably nothing else--they're of very different builds). You could be right, but I think it was for practical reasons. For that matter, it could've been unintentional.
Also, I not only never got a lesbian vibe from Karen (who, let's face it, was in love with Joe), I never really got one from Martha, either. She always seemed like an excitable type who, due to the extreme stress of the circumstances, came to believe that she was. Granted, she was very attached to Karen but same-sex friends are often jealous of each other (very close friendships are often like romances without the sex). I suspect that Hellman's intention was for Martha to be a closeted lesbian but the way the part plays strikes me as ambiguous.

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Funny; I recently came to the same conclusion (easier to run in a jacket than a long coat). Plus, Wyler uses that great shot when Karen reaches Martha's door, where he essentially shoots her from the knees down as she pushes against the door in the beginning of the candlestick / door sequence. So, perhaps it is just a dramatic conveyance.

I do believe that nothing was left to chance, as Wyler was a director who believed that the devil is in the details. It can't be a continuity problem, because there were probably something in the area of atleast twenty takes--even if they nailed each one--to get that last five minutes.

I agree with the lack of lesbian vibe from Karen--as it was filmed. I was thinking about MacLaine's comment that "they didn't shoot the movie the right way", in connection with her comment about she and Hepburn not discussing the reading. If you take the dialog from the revelation scene and read it with a different angle from Karen, it changes the whole storyline.

Hellman is on record that the play was about the lie, not the lesbianism. But she also, at a later date, stated that she wished the screenwriter had gone farther in the movie, to match the tone of the times. I wonder if that could be part of it.

The fact of the matter is, I think Hellman crept up to the issue of lesbianism, then backed off (though who am I to critique one of the major writers of her time). I think she could have made an interesting point about the power of lies by focusing more on the complicity of everyone...including Karen. But that's just me. ;-)

Am following a lead on the original Hellman screenplay for the movie. Am hoping to read that sometime in the next few months.

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I think Karen's heterosexuality comes through in the play as well and let's face it: only one's (possibly) being gay is a much more interesting plot device than both. Perhaps Hellman is on record somewhere about her exact intentions? I'm by no stretch of the imagination a Hellman scholar. Incidentally, I agree that the lie is of primary importance--the lesbianism is the MacGuffin and substitution of the hetero love triangle portrayed in These Three is equally effective, albeit far less titillating.
I agree with your assessment of Wyler and in fact, it's on that basis that I don't think he was shooting for anything subliminal. There's nothing in any of his previous works I've seen that conveys anything but a straightforward command of his craft--he's a different sort of director than, say, Hitchcock or Bergman or even Ford (who could get his point across visually without hitting his audience over the head with it). He's one of the greats but I don't think his great passion is for symbolism.

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Wow, that is incredibly observant of you, as I never noticed that. The reasons listed are good enough for real life, but for a movie so carefully thought out & planned, I think there must be a greater signifigance especially b/c of the scene she wears it in. I've been thinking about it, and I just don't know. Perhaps Karen still wanted to be close to Martha & was thinking about their friendship and how it was changed now, and she put the coat on b/c she was wondering how they'd be able to remain friends like before now that the secret was out? But what was Martha thinking when she saw her friend wearing her jacket? Maybe she felt that there would never be anything more between them, and she couldn't lose Karen but at the same time she couldn't bear to watch Karen love anyone else, so she ended it? I'm interested to hear what others think. Very very good question.

"Are you going to your grave with unlived lives in your veins?" ~ The Good Girl

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It is really observant. I do wonder if it was just a mistake, but at the same time, it does seem pretty deliberate. Some reasons were good for practical, daily life things but in a movie, things are a bit more meticulous than just, "Sometimes girls wear each others clothes." I think it could've been symbolic on Karen's part, kind of a way of staying close to Martha given everything they'd been through up to that point. Or maybe an interesting commentary on Martha's death immediately after.

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I always come back to the jacket question at the end of the movie as well, and while it's easy to write it off as insignificant, you summed it up perfectly to me that because of the fact that movie productions are usually more focused on details, I do think there was some kind of meaning to it. I hope there is anyway! I think it was an interesting choice to make her pick Martha's jacket when her own was right there. I wish there were more interviews with the cast on this movie outside of Shirley's comments from the Celluloid Closet. Would be so cool to see their thoughts on it today. I still find it hard to believe they didn't discuss the subject matter.

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You aren't meant to get a lesbian vibe from her. She's deeply in the closet. And trying not to show them. they weren't allowed to put anything in there that implied that she acted on her feelings at all
I think "Listen to me! I do love you like they said." When before that admission she was denying to herself over and over again Is clear enough.
What is a lesbian vibe anyway. What is she meant to be doing in the film to prove she's a lesbian.

Things that they literally could have got the film banned for.

She's horribly jealous and admits to being in love with her friend is about all they could show.

Karen on the other hand would rather be with her friend than Joe. So that tells you something. And that jacket thing is on purpose. Most things in film are.

Karen is pretty ambiguous.

But seriously. Martha is the "excitable type" according to you Yet she's been pretty dignified her whole life.
"I feel so sick and dirty that I can't stand it anymore."
Did you not listen to what she was saying.

She's in love with her friend as in gay and felt she had to admit it because their whole lives have been destroyed. Karen's life has been destroyed I think is what is worse for her.

Yes female friendships can be intense almost romantic. Which this was. The point is Martha knew it wasn't just that on her part anyway . As you can hear her rationalise it over and over again to Karen. And then admit that it wasn't just friendship. "Listen to me! I do love you like they said."
She knows what it is. Without overtly saying I want to have sex with you and have done for a long time and I'm deeply in love with you but I feel disgusted with myself for feeling that way.

Look I don't know about you but I don't feel that way about my friends in any way. If you do that's fine.

I believe what Martha said. As it was completely clear. Even clear to the actress who played her. If you cannot maybe it's something sort of bias in you.









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