MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > Rate Your Music site also does films....

Rate Your Music site also does films....


I recently discovered the site:
https://rateyourmusic.com/
It's a vast user-driven, wiki-like site where users numerically rate and review their 'record collections'. (If you want to contribute you'll have to register, but the whole site is readable without that step.) Those stats are then collated in various ways. I'd guess that the user-base currently skews exactly the record-store-employee-ish (though record stores barely exist these days) way you'd expect: young-ish, white, male, nerdy. E.g. the site's top ten highest-rated albums are 2xRadiohead, 2xPink Floyd, King Crimson, Beatles, Velvet Underground, Bowie, My Bloody Valentine, and Kendrick Lamarr.

Anyhow, notwithstanding its name, RYM also rates other media including films. Psycho tops its chart for 1960:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/1960/
and comes in at #8 on its chart for the whole 1960s:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/1960s/
at #30 all-time:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/all-time/
and #4 of horrors all-time:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/all-time/g:horror/exc:live,archival/

One could easily spend many hours exploring the site but I confess that the first two lists alone have given me lots of good viewing ideas (or hurryups). E.g., Le Trou by Jacques Becker slots in at the site's #2 for 1960 between Psycho and The Apartment. I've been meaning to check that film out for ages and will now get on it.

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Psycho tops its chart for 1960:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/1960/

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Nice. With The Apartment not far behind -- and a whole LOT of foreign films. (Well, we in America to whom these WERE foreign films had a certain cultural viewpoint for a few decades. That's over now but I still think more Americans saw Psycho and the Apartment than any of the foreign films on the list -- foreign films simply did not get the wide distribution in the US.)

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and comes in at #8 on its chart for the whole 1960s:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/1960s/

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OK...take out the foreign titles and I believe that Psycho rises.

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at #30 all-time:
https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/film/all-time/

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Not bad and...The Apartment is in there. The Apartment is meaningful and , I think, has overtaken Some Like It Hot as the Wilder movie that gets the most praise from that "50's/60's cusp". Good thing. Best Picture win aside, The Apartment simply has more to say about corporate life, the pain of loneliness, the need for love.

Parasite's in there too. Always interesting when recent releases rank so high. On the voters' mind?

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and #4 of horrors all-time:

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Actually, I think it is Number Three -- behind The Shining at Number One and Alien at Number Two.

Interesting memories to me. Psycho is my Number One(of course?) and I say that even as I am aware that Balsam looks a little fake falling down the stairs, and maybe the psychiatrist talks too long, and John Gavin isn't that great. Not to mention scenes with Sheriff Chambers that look like a Revue TV episode --versus the auteur artistry of Kubrick and newbie Ridley Scott -- Psycho can look at once "Hays Code Old Hollywood" and a bit TV episode threadbare.

But...not so, really. A LOT of Psycho looks great -- the compositions, the angles, the Oscar-nominated cinematography. The TV-like scenes help sell the cheap horror of the piece. The murders were historic and I recall a lot more screams in Psycho than in The Shining.

I recall seeing Alien in 1979 and The Shining in 1980, and in both cases, I saw something great in them but -- Psycho still won for me.

Simple reasons:

Alien: Compare the build-up to the killing of Harry Dean Stanton to the Arbogast murder. Things are way too long and drawn out and almost aimless as Stanton wanders around. Arbogast's ascent into death was concise, tight, perfectly timed. Later in Alien, the killings of Kotto and Cartwright (together) are pretty murky -- we cannot clearly see what is being DONE to them as we could with Marion and Arbogast. (A deleted scene showed much better detail of how the alien killed them.) And I still think both the first 20 minutes of the movie, and final 10 minutes of Ripley wandering around are...too long for my taste.

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The Shining: It has the SECOND best setting for a horror movie after Psycho (with the house AND the motel.) Here it is the empty "hundreds of rooms" Overlook Hotel, all alone deep in the snowy and cut off Colorado mountains. But what happens there(unlike what happens in Psycho) is rather meandering , a mix of the arty and psychological. And the "Arbogast moment" -- the axing of Scatman Crothers by Nicholson, is neither as well-directed as Arbogast's murder, nor -- with Nicholson as the killer -- as haunting as the robotic, monstrous and mysterious Mrs. Bates with her knife.

There's a lot to LIKE in The Shining: the naked woman in the bathtub; "All work and no play..."; Nicholson's sublime and insane macho piggery as he stalks trembling Shelley Duvall up the stairs ("And what do YOU think should be done with him?") Nicholson's deadly still, slow, but perfectly timed dialogues with "Lloyd the bartender" and the scary butler. (BTW, a lot of critics though Nicholson hammed it up too much, but I don't think the movie works WITHOUT his hammery.) Yes, geeky-looking Shelley Duvall's too much the doormat(Hitchcock never would have cast her), but we come to believe this is the only woman who would STAY with the crazed failure Nicholson in this horrifying place. And she is a mother...

Anyway, I'd rank 'em like this:

1. Psycho
2. The Shining
3. Alien

...except I'd find room for Jaws after Psycho:

1. Psycho
2. Jaws
3. The Shining
4. The Thing (1982)
5. Alien

...and there's room for others on the list, too. (I think The Thing got right, timing-wise and clarity-wise, what Alien fumbled.)

Parlor games, parlor games. I'll keep backing Psycho to the end. I think it was the most successful and well done of the group..and the most haunting. I also like what one critic said of it: "Possibly the most perfectly made film of all time."

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Parasite's in there too. Always interesting when recent releases rank so high. On the voters' mind?
Yes, it's a little early to be annointing Parasite, excellent tho' it is, as the 21st best picture of all-time! Even funnier to me, however, was seeing The End of Evangelion (1997) rated as the #9 best picture of all-time. End of Evangelion was the movie-length 2nd attempt at a final episode for the 26 episode anime series, Neon Genesis Evangelion. Now, I was a late-comer to NGE and quite enthusiastic overall. It's a mind-bending trip all-right, with the final episode being truly out there. Maybe everyone who's into wild and crazy stuff (and who also has a high tolerance for the more formulaic 'fighting robots" stuff that starts off the series) should see it eventually. But #9 all-time? It never would have occurred to me to rate it that highly - indeed I'm fairly sure that I'dd rate it below at least 10 or so films from 1997 alone. (NGE is famously very 'thrown together', and kind of made up by its showrunner as he went along. As he became more and more depressed and stressed about producing the series' episodes on time and on budget, he went a little mad and then just kept writing that depression and madness into the final eps. That *is* the backstory of NGE, and is part of what makes it fun.) The RYM user-base clearly *loves* anime hence, for 1997, the home of many very good films, RYM picks all anime for its top 3 of that year followed by what I'd describe as one of David Lynch's less successful (but still interesting) films, Lost Highway, as #4. Lost Highway is *not* a better film than LA Confidential (#11) or The Sweet Hereafter (#26) or The Ice Storm or Affliction or Good Will Hunting or even Titanic. Moral: Take the film ratings and recommendations of a group skewing young and music-nerdy with several large grains of salt.

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E.g., Le Trou by Jacques Becker slots in at the site's #2 for 1960 between Psycho and The Apartment. I've been meaning to check that film out for ages and will now get on it.
Le Trou is an excellent, ultra-gritty & -detailed prison-escape drama. Only an ultra-macho crowd would ever rate it higher than the multiple-strings-to-its-bow The Apartment, but Le Trou, like some other great French crime films of the era (A Man Escaped, Rififi) is near-flawlessly executed, and pretty much perfect for what it is.

Reading around, the real-life celebrity escapee on whom the film is based and who wrote the book and co-authored the screenplay for the movie, and who effectively plays himself in the film, and who then went on to have more success as a novelist and as a film director was (famously in France) revealed in the '80s to have been (under a different name) a Nazi collaborator in WW2. Wikipedia has the sick details here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Giovanni
Unbelievable. What is one supposed to do with that? I assume that people who are squeamish about watching, say, Polanski or Allen movies now wouldn't think twice about denying themselves Le Trou. 1960, 15 years after the end of WW2, was a truly great movie year and, incredibly, a literal Jew-hater and -torturer and -murderer was a big part of one of its jewels. Food for thought.

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Unbelievable. What is one supposed to do with that? I assume that people who are squeamish about watching, say, Polanski or Allen movies now wouldn't think twice about denying themselves Le Trou. 1960, 15 years after the end of WW2, was a truly great movie year and, incredibly, a literal Jew-hater and -torturer and -murderer was a big part of one of its jewels. Food for thought.

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Well, I suppose it is like watching Birth of a Nation today..whether the "badness" of the fillmaker is actually expressed on the screen, or hidden from view in the lifestyle and history of the filmmaker himself....we have decisions to make about watching their work.

I know a lot of foreign titles from the sixties(Last Year at Marienbad, La Dolce Vita, L'Aventura-sp), but I can't say I've heard of Le Trou. I suppose when I get around to watching all these foreign films in my older age, I'll put Le Trou further down the list.

I think tthat one interesting thing about Roman Polanski is that he really made only two American studio mainstream films -- Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown. His sexual escapade ended his American career in 1977 -- fully 3 years after Chinatown and he didn't really have a new American production underway(he made, and starred in, The Tenant in the interim.) So that's it. Those two films. Major classics, pretty solid hits. And...a bunch of foreign films for the "afficinados" (Knife in the Water, Cul-de-Sac, and above all, Repulsion, with the famous critic quote ad 'Makes Psycho Look Like a Sunday School Picnic.")

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I will still watch Rosemary's Baby and Chinatown with pleasure -- though a bit of disturbance in each case.

A memory: I took a girlfriend to see Chinatown at night, and she was INCREDIBLY shaken by it, I mean tears and trembling and being scared in the dark from the car to her home, and me having to take care of her at her home for the night -- one realizes that movies can affect some people more strongly than others, sometimes. Chinatown was NOT "only a movie" for her.I felt bad. I started "pre-checking" reviews to avoid taking her to movies like that again.

I figure that Roman paid whatever price Roman paid -- but it included: no American studio movies. Just American stars sometimes -- Walter Matthau, Harrison Ford (am I supposed to hate THEM?)

The new book on Chinatown makes a point -- more rumor than research -- that Mr. Polanski liked the younger girls for many years before the one that set him on course to exile. The book also has the details on what Mr. Polanski DID, sexually to that 13 year old girl. Some rough stuff.

As for Woody Allen, he has developed a newfound group of supporters who point out he was cleared in the judicial system(and that Mia Farrow is, lets face it, kinda nuts.) But there is than teenage girlfriend on screen in Manhattan. Still, he's been married to his (non-blood) step-daughter for years.

These are the people who make our movies. We have to take all of them with a grain of salt. After all, they gave Polanski an Oscar-in-exile and a standing O for "The Pianist."

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but I can't say I've heard of Le Trou. I suppose when I get around to watching all these foreign films in my older age, I'll put Le Trou further down the list.
Le Trous is definitely worth a look at some point. Seeing Le Trou has in fact sent me spiraling through a range of, in some sense, second-tier Euro-classics that I'd previously neglected.

Le Trou is set in a male prison so has an almost entirely male cast. The exception to that role is a visitor to one of the wannabe-escapees just a week or so before their escape-plot is due to hatch. The teenage girl in that case is played, very well by one Catherine Spaak, who's a largely forgotten French/Italian it-girl of the 1960's and 1970s. She had an amazingly modern basic look, e.g., Here she is on the set of one her movies in 1963:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/17/La_noia_%281963%29_-_Catherine_Spaak.jpg
She could have stepped out of a fashion spread or off a red carpet *today*. Here's another behind the scenes image of her in the same yellow dress sitting with Bette Davis:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/54/La_noia_%281963%29_-_Bette_Davis_and_Catherine_Spaak.jpg

Spaak had a larger role in a very popular Italian buddy-comedy of the time, 2 years after Le Trou, Il Sorpasso (1962). She's brilliant there as the (surprisingly revealed) daughter of the more extroverted buddy from that film. That film has (again somewhat surprisingly) a very downer ending, and anticipates and maybe influenced that whole strand of downer-ending late '60s and '70s Hollywood films starting with Easy Rider.

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I've been working through a bunch of Spaak's films from this period and, even those that aren't quite as good as Le Trou or Il Sorpasso have been a lot of fun. It's been fun getting to know directors like Dino Risi and Antonio Pietrangeli who, it's true, aren't as idiosynchratic and artsy and 'important' as Fellini, Antonioni, Pasolini, etc., but who are closer in a lot of ways to the vibrant, stylish Italian life of the early '60s (that Fellini's La Dolce Vita (1960) originally crystallized for the world) than the more self-styled geniuses tend to be. I can especially recommend a couple of Pietrangeli films, The Girl from Parma (1963) (w. Spaak) and I Knew Her Well (1965) (w. Stefania Sandrelli) which has another surprise super-downer ending. I'm sure now that Hollywood's vogue for such endings a few years later on does in fact have Italian (popular not artsy) roots.

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The teenage girl in that case is played, very well by one Catherine Spaak, who's a largely forgotten French/Italian it-girl of the 1960's and 1970s. She had an amazingly modern basic look, e.g., Here she is on the set of one her movies in 1963:

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Your emphasis, swanstep on Catherine Spaak is where mine cannot be -- the foreign film (but I'm learning.)

But I very much remember Catherine Spaak from my Number Two personal favorite of 1967: Hotel.

Here's my post about 1967 from my "NUmber Twos" thread:

BEGIN

1967

Number One: Wait Until Dark
Number Two: Hotel

Honorable mentions

Hombre
The Graduate
Bonnie and Clyde
The Dirty Dozen
You Only Live Twice
In the Heat of the Night
Tony Rome

END

Its a very personal list. I know that Bonnie and Clyde and The Graduate are the "seminal" classics of that year. In the Heat of the Night was a timely(if gritty) racial film that one Best Picture. The Dirty Dozen was a huge hit -- with a stupendous action finale(just behind the end of The Wild Bunch in my book.)

But there was something about Hotel.

I saw it at a movie theater and the way it started -- with a lush, sad romantic orchestral theme over a painting over which the camera moved showing all the guests in all the windows in all the rooms -- kinda hooked me.

The film was from the best seller by Arthur Hailey and he would soon write Airport and succeed even more in book and film. But THIS one was smaller scale, more much more sophisticated and better acted than Airport.

Hotel starred Rod Taylor(that cool second tier 60's lead from The Birds) as the young hotel manager, portrayed in a tough and touching surrogate father-son relationship with hotel owner Melvyn Douglas that has always stuck with me through time: how the young man honors the old man, how the old man depends on the young man, etc.

As with Grand Hotel before it, Hotel mixed and matched several stories with characters who don't know each other from story to story. The film climaxes with a "hanging by a thread" elevator sequence. Plenty of suspense and then the elevator plunges -- and kills the one character who HAS to die for his story to end correctly. A bit contrived but...emotionally right.

I probably liked Hotel for the Hitchcockian set-piece of the elevator sequence, and Karl Malden had a near-silent role as a funny hotel key thief who gets chased hither and yon but always escapes. That was a bit Htichcock, too.

The rest was simply drama. And in one of the stories. a hotel tycoon played by Kevin McCarthy comes to try to takeover the hotel(by friendly force) and brings his French mistress along.

Ta-DA: Catherine Spaak.

I fell a little in love with her as a pre-teen, I always fall in love with her again when I watch the movie today. She's the wonderful focus of the film's final scene , filmed Rear Window style as New Orleans -jazz"When the Saints Come Marching In" plays on the soundtrack. The movie has a sad ending about the hotel's closure, which gets kind of happy when Spaak reunites with Taylor.

I was reading film reviews at that age, and I recall that Time magazine(much respected) gave Hotel a good review for its craft and professionalism and poignancy: "A hotel you will hate to check out of." Bosley Crowther of the NYT liked it.

My friends and family sometimes remind me that I was "born too late." Liking Hitchcock and Sinatra and movies like Hotel was liking things of "the generation before me." So be it. I liked that kind of quality, and "suave" and craftsmanship. Hey, I liked the shambling documentary style movies of the 70's, too. Just like I liked Led Zepplin as much as Sinatra.

And watching Hotel at a pre-teen age, it had me wondering about how my own career would go -- could I do the job as well as Rod Taylor does it here?("James Bond with a day job," one wag noted.) And wouldn't that be nice to entertain Catherine Spaak -- stripped down to a tasteful slip -- in my swinging bachelor pad? I had to wait to find out.

I read an article the other day about key films of 1967, and amazingly, Hotel was on the list. But with a backhanded compliment: "The kind of all-star cast you get when you can't get an all-star cast." I dunno. Malden and Douglas were Oscar winners. I suppose Rod Taylor got the lead after Paul Newman and Rock Hudson said no but...he's quite good (he always was.) The view saluted Hotel as a swan song for old-time Hollywood storytelling. (With a black civil rights twist in its New Orleans setting, I might add. Plus a stripper -- you didn't see THAT in 1939.)

And given how many times I"ve watched that movie over the decades...I am very, very, VERY qcquainted with Catherine Spaak.

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But I very much remember Catherine Spaak from my Number Two personal favorite of 1967: Hotel.
A-ha, I'd forgotten about your attachment to Hotel (1967) ecarle. Spaak is defintiely old news to you then! Hotel was Spaak's big chance in Hollywood, but things never really developed for her in the US beyond that. Having not seen Hotel (1967) myself I can't speculate about why that might be so. I know that the film itself was on the old-fashioned/square side of the big division between Hollywood generations that finally broke wide open in 1967. Was that held against her perhaps? I do know too that plenty of other great euro-beauties (e.g., Cardinale, Deneuve) had similarly brief US careers around this time so maybe the odds were always against extended US success for Spaak. One thing that occurs to me is that all these women had hit big in Europe in the early '60s - that's what earned them their US shots a few years later. *But* that meant they were all just a little too old for the youth movement in 1967 & after Hollywood. In broadest terms, Hollywood was mainly looking for actresses who were just that bit younger and who ideally had some of that late '60s hippy chick vibe (Katherine Ross, Diane Keaton, even Dunaway). If you're going to import someone from Europe it's going to be an up-for-anything-chick like Susan George, not a last-generation, cool refugee from La Dolce Vita or Repulsion.

Anyhow, Hotel (1967) is darned hard to find (a lot of Rod Taylor's big films are! Dark of the Sun and Zabriskie Point too for example) but I've tracked down what looks to be a semi-watchable (somewhere between vhs and dvd!) copy from a Russian youtube-like site of all places...

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Here's Alexander Payne discussing Il Sorpasso's influence on his Sideways:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fghoJNvrjys
Here's a few snaps of Spaak looking most fetching near the end of Il Sorpasso:
https://youtu.be/XTUNyworWTI?t=103
Incredibly, the Criterion edn of Il Sorpasso (1962) w/ English subs is currently watchable for free on youtube:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lmo9gYQskk
as is a very good version of The Girl From Parma (1963):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KJSM5dgbBg
Both of these films are deceptively casual. They're so entertaining that you don't notice all the observation and great blocking and shot-making going on (Payne's point - only when you do a shot by shot rewatch and try to understand what made them so appealing do you *really* appreciate them.)
Spaak's had a big (Barbara Walters-like?) career as a tv personality & journalist in Italy. Here she is hosting a women's chat-show in the '90s where she interviews Deneuve and other female luminaries. The clip somewhat insultingly only provides subtitles for the two Catherines!
https://youtu.be/PpFvgR1M2gk?t=50

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