MovieChat Forums > Psycho (1960) Discussion > NOT OT: Stuart Whitman, RIP

NOT OT: Stuart Whitman, RIP

posted 4 years ago by ecarle (14979)
16 replies | jump to latest

Actor Stuart Whitman has passed away at the age of 92, I think. That's a nice long life.

Whitman is relevant HERE because, somewhat famously now, it is known that Hitchcock wanted Whitman to play Sam Loomis in Psycho -- but Lew Wasserman pressured Hitchcock into using his client John Gavin instead.

A lot of people don't like Gavin in Psycho. I'm' NOT one of them. He's rather "in the Hitchcock tradition" -- tall, handsome, dark-haired, good body(like Cary Grant, even though Gavin was a Rock Hudson clone.) And I personally like how "scared" Gavin plays Loomis -- scared of LIFE, of marriage, of Marion -- and a bit scared by the Bates Motel at the end. He's nervous for a big, strapping man.

Gavin was also very tall, tall enough to believeably subdue Norman in the fruit cellar. And -- John Gavin rather looked LIKE Anthony Perkins -- doubles facing each other across a motel counter.

But Hitchcock liked Stuart Whitman, who was just coming up in 1960, and about to get a good lead opposite John Wayne in "The Commancheros" in 1961 that made Whitman a movie star for...less than a decade. And then a TV star.

Whitman was a handsome guy(everybody Hitch looked at for Sam Loomis was a handsome guy) with a great, sexy-growly sandpaper voice...he was a Western kind of guy, a man's man. HIS Sam Loomis might have seemed more appropriate to rural Fairvale.

As it turned out, Stuart Whitman got to work with Janet Leigh 12 years after Psycho -- he played her husgand, even. But the movie was terrible -- "Night of the Lepus" -- about GIANT KILLER BUNNIES(simply blown-up footage on the big screen). You aren't supposed to make your B-movie monster movie INTENTIONALLY stupid and funny. Night of the Lepus was sad proof that the best of movie actors sometimes have to take a job "for the paycheck." (I also seem to remember Whitman opposite Leigh in a sexy thriller called An American Dream, in the 60's. I guess they made a good pair -- Hitch thought so. UPDATE: Also called, here at movie chat: "See You In Hell, Darling." Hah.)

Back in the 60's, Whitman got an Oscar nomination for the very controversial role of a child molester(recovering, and he didn't act on the urge) in The Mark; so he has that historic role on his record.

But the rest of the time, Whitman was good in Westerns. He's Wayne's handsome partner in The Commancheros. He's the American Westerner lead in the international "Those Magnificent Flying Machines" (1965).

And he's in one of my favorite Westerns of all time: "Rio Conchos"(1964) in which a four-man team goes on a mission. Two of them are cool dudes(Richard Boone, Tony Franciosa), the other two are straight arrows(Stuart Whitman, NFL star Jim Brown.) In 2020, now only Jim Brown is still alive of the four men -- but together, they are great in Rio Conchos. I do believe I'm going to watch it in honor of Stuart Whitman.

In 1967, Whitman saw the writing on the wall and accepted a Western TV series called "Cimarron Strip." It was 90 minutes long, a bit bigger than most TV shows -- and Richard Boone memorably took a guest role on one("The Roarer") . It was fun to see Boone and Whitman together again. Its on YouTube -- and a colorless Robert Duvall is in that episode , too.

In 1971, in "real life," I went to a screening and reception in Los Angeles for a documentary called "Directed by John Ford." I was a teenager, and I got to meet the film's director -- newly hot Peter Bogdanovich, and I got to SEE two big stars, sitting together in the theater (John Wayne, a bit drunk, and James Stewart, in eyeglasses.)

But, looking around, I also saw a few lesser actors and one of them was ..Stuart Whitman.Which was great -- I mean, he was in "Rio Conchos." But I do remember that Whitman looked a little nervous, a little "on" -- he was clearly trying to make job connections, to see and be seen. Its a memory of Hollywood that bothered me a bit.

But this: I wonder, WHEN did Stuart Whitman learn he could have been Sam Loomis? Was an offer extended and then pulled back? Did somebody tell him? Or did he have to wait until it was revealed in whatever book did so(I'll guess the Rebello book in 1990.) Its worth wondering about.

And this: Whitman may have lost the Loomis role in Psycho, but he GOT the role in The Commancheros when he personally asked John Wayne for it. Wayne reportedly gave Whitman the role and the actor who had it was removed. So -- you lose a role, you win a role. Its Hollywood, Jake.

And the man who lost the role in "The Commancheros" was...Anthony Perkins.

[–] swanstep (2616) 4 years ago

And the man who lost the role in "The Commancheros" was...Anthony Perkins.

Since seeing 'Marriage Story', which ends with two songs from Sondheim's Company (1970), one sung by Johannson and one sung by Driver, I've become obsessed with Company. There are different productions and different soundtracks recordings, there's a famous, hard-to-find documentary by D.A. Pennebaker about the recording of the original cast album in 1970, and there are all sorts of perplexities about the show's interpretation that you can trace through various interviews with Sondheim, William Goldman pieces on it, gay press pieces, etc..

Well.. in my excavations it emerged fairly early on that Sondheim-pal, Anthony Perkins was the original lead "Bobby" for Company back in 1970. Perkins left the show in rehearsals apparently to fulfil a directing ambition. He was replaced by The Love Bug's Dean Jones, who himself was replaced after a week or two of performances. Here's Jones from Pennebaker's doc. recording the cast album version of show-stopper 'Being Alive':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am8qrrZAtP4

It's so intriguing to imagine what we missed by *not* having Perkins in this role. At the very least I think Perkins would have raised the gay subtext in the play to text... and one can't help but wonder whether Perkins bailed on the role in part because it was going to be a little close to the bone for him. If so, it was a hell of a choice for him to make because the lead in Company *would* have given Perkins a monumental, culturally significant part to rival 'Norman Bates'.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

And the man who lost the role in "The Commancheros" was...Anthony Perkins.

Since seeing 'Marriage Story', which ends with two songs from Sondheim's Company (1970), one sung by Johannson and one sung by Driver, I've become obsessed with Company.

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Isn't it funny how watching ONE work of popular art(Marriage Story), you can suddenly be drawn to ANOTHER work of popular art?(Company) And, indeed, get obsessed with it.

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Well.. in my excavations it emerged fairly early on that Sondheim-pal, Anthony Perkins was the original lead "Bobby" for Company back in 1970.

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Recall that Perkins and Sondheim were pals who wrote "The Last of Sheila" together. I suppose perhaps they were clsoer than that for awhile, but nothing permanent.

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Perkins left the show in rehearsals apparently to fulfil a directing ambition.

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Possibly "Steambath"? I recall Perkins(with Janet Leigh) on the Dick Cavett show. He'd ridden his bike on NYC streets from Broadway to the Cavett studio and talked about directing that play and starring in it(for awhile.) It was later done on PBS with Bill Bixby and I saw that production. Its basically a bunch of men and one sexy woman -- all in towels -- in a steambath that proves the "gateway to Heaven." They're all dead.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

--He was replaced by The Love Bug's Dean Jones, who himself was replaced after a week or two of performances. Here's Jones from Pennebaker's doc. recording the cast album version of show-stopper 'Being Alive':
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am8qrrZAtP4

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I think I saw that clip in a special of a couple of years ago about Sondheim...

Quite a boost at the time for "clean Gene Dean Jones." But not long-lived.

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It's so intriguing to imagine what we missed by *not* having Perkins in this role. At the very least I think Perkins would have raised the gay subtext in the play to text... and one can't help but wonder whether Perkins bailed on the role in part because it was going to be a little close to the bone for him.

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Possibly. That's evidently what drove Monty Clift and, yes, Cary Grant...out of Rope. Gossipy this may be, but there seems to be some proof out there about these actors. Though I personally saw Cary Grant smooching away with his young, final wife(before they married) in 1980.

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If so, it was a hell of a choice for him to make because the lead in Company *would* have given Perkins a monumental, culturally significant part to rival 'Norman Bates'.

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There is an issue where an actor decides NOT to take a major role. Evidently, its not worth the risk sometimes. You know , Perkins did Psycho very cheaply($40,000 on an old contract; he usually got $150,000) because he wanted to work with Hitchcock; he got like a $2000 bonus ...and that was it. His whole career and persona changed for very little pay or participation.

The other major role for which Perkins was considered was "Lawrence of Arabia," which, when you think about it, was a good fit. Indeed, if Perkins had had Norman Bates AND some other major role in his history, he might have ended up a bigger star with more choice of scripts.

But Norman was very much enough --and Perkins earned money from the role in the 80's.

[–] swanstep (2616) 4 years ago

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

A video of the 2011 revival of Company at Lincoln Center w. all sorts of famous faces, e.g., Neil Patrick Harris, Stephen Colbert, Christina Hendricks, is watchable here:
https://vimeo.com/199621233
The vid. has Spanish subtitles but is otherwise good quality.

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I always am amazed, swanstep: you FIND these productions.

From my viewpoint, sometimes they are productions that I know(PBS Steambath); sometimes not (this version of Company. I do love Christina Hendricks...old style sexy female movie star love.)

I'll try to take a look.

[–] swanstep (2616) 4 years ago

Possibly "Steambath"? I recall Perkins(with Janet Leigh) on the Dick Cavett show. He'd ridden his bike on NYC streets from Broadway to the Cavett studio and talked about directing that play and starring in it(for awhile.) It was later done on PBS with Bill Bixby and I saw that production. Its basically a bunch of men and one sexy woman -- all in towels -- in a steambath that proves the "gateway to Heaven." They're all dead.

Reading around, this checks out timing wise. Perkins directed and had the lead role in the first production of Steambath in June 1970. Interestingly, Charles Grodin was the original lead but Perkins took over his part before the show opened.

Anyhow, I finally tracked down an (only slightly censored) copy of the tv version of Steambath (w/ Bixby in for Perkins, almost certainly a downgrade). I was a little disappointed. Bruce Jay Friedman has a very strong voice and ear for dialect and that's all here, but his later work from Heartbreak Kid (w/ Grodin!) onwards is just better, funnier, I think. Perrine is great, but isn't given much to do.

Finally, note that Norman Lloyd executive produced Steambath for TV.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Reading around, this checks out timing wise. Perkins directed and had the lead role in the first production of Steambath in June 1970. Interestingly, Charles Grodin was the original lead but Perkins took over his part before the show opened.

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I've got a coupla Perkins biography books around somewhere, but I couldn't find them to check in on this(they are in boxes, I think.) That bit about Grodin dropping out(or being pushed out by Perkins) sounds right, and so , definitely, does the timing. Recall that after its weird TV representations in the 60's, "Psycho" finally became a TV syndication staple in 1970...so I would suppose that Perkins and Leigh suddenly found themselves in demand for interviews -- they were getting a "second wave" of Psycho fame.

Anyhow, I finally tracked down an (only slightly censored) copy of the tv version of Steambath (w/ Bixby in for Perkins, almost certainly a downgrade).

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Yes, I recall Bixby being a surprising choice for the serious/bawdy material. Some actors just "lock in": TV actor(back when TV meant broadcast, not prestige cable.) On the positive side, I recall thinking that Bixby in that piece sounded a lot like Cary Grant, and looked rather like the young Grant.

--- I was a little disappointed. Bruce Jay Friedman has a very strong voice and ear for dialect and that's all here, but his later work from Heartbreak Kid (w/ Grodin!) onwards is just better, funnier, I think.

--- I'm more familiar with the name Bruce Jay Friedman than with the work , but here's the place to throw in a "hear, hear!" on the original Heartbreak Kid, which has some of the funniest scenes(MEAN funny scenes) in any movie I've ever seen in my life. Any scene with Eddie Albert's rich WASP potential father-in-law from hell versus Grodin's tough nebbish are...gold. And the movie practically screams "1972" today -- very nostalgic.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Perrine is great, but isn't given much to do.

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She was just getting her taste of stardom in 1973, when this was broadcast. She'd done Slaughterhouse Five for the big screen in '72, and would be Lenny Bruce's stripper wife opposite Dustin Hoffman as Lenny in 1974. She was voluptuous and willing -- as various young actresses are/were -- to "take it off" for a few movies to get established.

Perrine's "climax" came in 1978 and 1979, I think. In "Superman" (1978) she was "Miss Teschmacher," Lex Luthor's long suffering hot babe mistress(as on the old Batman TV show, you felt the villain liked keeping a hot babe around...but never made it with her.)

But I really like her in a near-cameo in "The Electric Horseman"(1979) where she's handsome broken-down rodeo star Robert Redford's estranged wife, chasing him from here to there to get him to sign divorce papers. Finally, in one of my favorite lines of all time, Redford resignedly says to her "Gimme papers." And signs them.

"Gimme papers." I've said this time and time again all through my life, resigned like Redford does. ANY papers.

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Finally, note that Norman Lloyd produced Steambath.

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The Forrest Gump of 20th century TV and movies. 1973 -- 31 years after he fell off the Statue of Liberty. 31 years BEFORE he appeared in whatever he appeared in in the 2000s(I'm sure he did something.) A nice long stint as "the old doctor" on St. Elsewhere in the 80's and that was almost 40 years ago to start. And hes STILL HERE. Isn't he? Replaces Kirk Douglas as our starry 100-plus guy.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

I'll add a little "Steambath" trivia:

It was part of a "series" (two or three plays a year?) of PBS dramas.

And another one was called "Monserrat." And I watched both "Steambath" and "Monserrat" and I found that they had pretty much the same premise:

A group of people are gathered in a room and - - one by one, they are taken out of that room and to death. In Steambath, its "metaphorical" -- they are dead already, spirits in purgatory begging to go back to Earth but...no deal. In Monserrat, its quite real -- a military officer in some long ago 1800's war takes a group of innocents prisoner and has them executed one by one as he searches for some sort of major spy among them. As I recall, Rip Torn was the evil officer deciding on life or death, and Keir Dullea was the spy.

But I was taken by how PBS had pretty much decided to make the same story twice.

And this personal note: as a teen I finagled an internship at our local PBS outlet. It was a small building with a small soundstage, a couple of old TV cameras, and a primitive control booth - mainly used to broadcast the "Pledge week beg-athons" . At least I learned how to use 50's style cameras and Ernie Kovacs-like technical tricks(in the control booth with TV screens and knobs) in that job.

But the building was also a "conduit" to broadcast national PBS productions, and our "boss" called us into a screening room one day to watch "Steambath." He said: "I'm not sure if we are going to be able to broadcast this locally. I want to do a test screening here with all of you and I'll decide."

I enjoyed the play. I enjoyed Valerine Perrine very much.

Our boss said "You folks OK with broadcasting this locally?"

"Yes, sir!"

And it was done.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

In Monserrat, its quite real -- a military officer in some long ago 1800's war takes a group of innocents prisoner and has them executed one by one as he searches for some sort of major spy among them. As I recall, Rip Torn was the evil officer deciding on life or death, and Keir Dullea was the spy.

But I was taken by how PBS had pretty much decided to make the same story twice.

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UPDATE: I did a little internet research: Monserrat was done in 1971 by PBS, 2 years before Steambath.It is set during one of the South American revolutions; Simon Bolivar has escaped, Keir Dullea knows where he is, and officer Rip Torn wants Dullea to talk. Dullea won't crack under torture, so Torn has 6 innocent people brought in. If THEY can't convince Dullea to talk, they will be killed.

Powerful stuff.

Steambath is a more flighty version of the same topic...your last hour on earth, can you negotiate out of death?

[–] swanstep (2616) 4 years ago

He's the American Westerner lead in the international "Those Magnificent Flying Machines" (1965).

Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines was one of the first movies I saw as a kid (on a rerelease around 1970 - my memory is that both Flying Machines & It's a MMMM World got regular rereleases during School Break periods in NZ in the early '70s). I recently watched it again out of nostalgia...and it's got a great look (shot in Todd-AO, basically 70mm) but not much else. It's not nearly as funny or as exciting in its action set pieces as It's a MMMM World (which looks miraculous by comparison), and none of the main players, including Whitman really catch fire. Seeing Whitman in this actually did make me think of Viggo Mortensen's Sam Loomis in Psycho (1998). I wonder whether van Sant had that casting subversion in mind?

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines

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Ooops...I seem to have called it "Those Magnificent Flying Machines." Oh, well. Shorthand.

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was one of the first movies I saw as a kid (on a rerelease around 1970 - my memory is that both Flying Machines & It's a MMMM World got regular rereleases during School Break periods in NZ in the early '70s).

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Its a Mad, Mad Mad Mad World definitely got an American re-release in 1970...I saw it twice, once at a "first run dome" (top drawer) and again for a buck at the second run theater in a tougher part of town. Loved it both times. The 1970 re-release trailer is on one of the DVDs: "If ever the world needed Its a Mad Mad Mad Mad world...its NOW." Yep. 1970. Vietnam. Kent State. The Manson trials. We needed it alright.

And we sure could use it today. But...life goes on.

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I recently watched it again out of nostalgia...and it's got a great look (shot in Todd-AO, basically 70mm) but not much else.

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I saw the film on release in 1965. The same year, I saw The Great Race on release. The two films were sort of in competition -- given that both films were about races. "Official" races. Mad World had been about an "unofficial" race among greedy people to find a treasure.

Together the three films were part of that "comedia guargantua" movie trend that critics HATED("Its not Chaplin or Keaton") and audiences LOVED.

I've recently given Mad World my "favorite of 1963" slot over Charade. The Great Race always got my 1965 slot - -there's something about how "over the top plush, lush and expensive" it looks -- the quintessential Warner Brothers big budget sixties, movie , with three stars(Lemmon never better), Peter Falk and Lemmon as a great comedy team, Mancini's score...and Blake Edwards probably at his best(the Pink Panthers aren't as consistently funny -- or has HUGE -- as this.)

But of course, I also award those two movies their slot's "through a child's memory," too.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

I recently watched it again out of nostalgia...and it's got a great look (shot in Todd-AO, basically 70mm) but not much else. It's not nearly as funny or as exciting in its action set pieces as It's a MMMM World (which looks miraculous by comparison), and none of the main players, including Whitman really catch fire.

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I haven't seen Magnificent Men in years. I recall liking it a lot as a kid in '65 -- it was GREAT to be a kid in '65 with those big comedies, but I don't recall it holding up on later viewings as the other comedia guargantua's do. Hey: not only do I love the jaunty theme song, but I love the drawings -- that artist was famous in the 60's, I have to go look up his name.

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Seeing Whitman in this actually did make me think of Viggo Mortensen's Sam Loomis in Psycho (1998).

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Well, that's interesting. Recall that I believe Whitman would have been more "believably rural and rugged" than John Gavin. Viggo ended up being that way, too - -but veered a bit too much towards "hick." Gavin was..Hitchcockian. A suave look, a dramatic manner -- able to dress up in a coat and tie for the climax(Viggo looks like a cowboy for the climax in the remake.)

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I wonder whether van Sant had that casting subversion in mind?

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Maybe. Before Viggo was cast, I recall thinking that maybe Van Sant would cast Matt Dillon(not Damon) as Sam. Because: he had just made "To Die For" with Nicole Kidman(as a wife), Matt Dillon(as her husband) and Joaquin Phoenix(as Nicole's teen lover who kills the husband). Van Sant offered Marion Crane to Kidman(she turned it down); Norman Bates to Joaquin(he said he could do it -- in a year) . I wonder if Matt Dillon got the Sam offer? (More trivia: Matt Dillion waited to long to commit to QT on a role in Pulp Fiction -- so QT gave it to Bruce Willis! And that's why Matt Dillion isn't a big star anymore.

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[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

A few more thoughts/memories about "Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines."

Funny, but not: Red Skelton in opening b/w sketches about "man learning how to fly." Skelton was just about "old hat" by 1965. Past his prime. Its rather bittersweet.

That theme song. Those cartoon sketches...Searle...was the artist called Searle? I'll be looking.

This WAS my first "Stuart Whitman movie." He stuck out as the main American in an international cast(Gert Froebe from Goldfinger, Terry Thomas from Mad World, the beauteous Sarah Miles), so as an American kid, I kind of fixated on him as the cowboy in the race. I saw my favorite Whitman film -- Rio Conchos(made before Magnificent Men) -- a few years later on TV.

I got the paperback "tie in" to the movie, and read it several times with pleasure. I expect it was the screenplay re-written as a novel(they did that back then.)

And in 1969, my family went to see a "sequel" (Those Jaunty Young Men in Their Jaunty Jalopies) that was sub-par, even with Tony "Great Race" Curtis(now fading fast) in the lead.

I remember "Jaunty Young Men in Their Jaunty Jalopies" because we saw it on Saturday, August 9, 1969 -- and walked out of the theater onto the street and a late edition newspaper on the stands that said "HOLLYWOOD ACTRESS SHARON TATE AND OTHERS MURDERED IN LOS ANGELES."

That's where I was...

[–] [email protected] (383) 4 years ago

He also played the title role in Francis of Assisi.

[–] ecarle (14979) 4 years ago

He also played the title role in Francis of Assisi.

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Yes..I didn't know that but I looked it up...there it is.

A rather eclectic career, when you think about it. Whitman was born to be in Westerns, but he's in The Mark in a very controversial role and in this religious biopic.

Skimming his IMDb bio, I see Whitman was in "Murder Incorporated" in 1960. One of the first Mafia films. Peter Falk's in it, and not very funny at all -- he's a mob hit man who stabs Morey Amsterdam(sweet and funny Buddy from The Dick Van Dyke Show) in the stomach, to death. And Whitman is forced to lure Amsterdam to Falk's blade. Same year as Psycho.